Healing From Divorce Trauma: How to Find Closure When You Never Get the “Why” | Dana Killion
Episode Description:
Healing from divorce trauma, betrayal, addiction, and grief starts with understanding what you can control—and releasing what you can’t.
In this deeply personal episode of Doing Divorce Different, Lesa Koski sits down with author Dana Killion to explore healing from divorce trauma and what it really takes to move from surviving something painful to becoming emotionally whole.
Dana shares her experience of discovering her husband's secret life while he was in treatment for alcoholism, the difficult decision to eventually end their marriage, the deaths of both parents, and the devastating loss of her oldest son.
Together, Lesa and Dana explore why getting an answer to “why?” can be so important after betrayal—and what to do when the person who hurt you cannot give you that answer. Dana introduces her “story of why” process: using the facts you know to create enough understanding to stop cycling through resentment and begin finding closure.
They also discuss healing from divorce trauma when addiction is involved, why loving someone doesn't mean you can save them, how boundaries can coexist with love, and how to recognize when unresolved anger may be a sign that your healing isn't finished.
Most importantly, this episode offers hope for anyone who feels overwhelmed by what comes next. You don't have to solve your entire future today. One small step can become another—and those baby steps can eventually become a ladder.
If you're navigating divorce, betrayal, addiction, grief, or another major life transition, this conversation about healing from divorce trauma will remind you that what happened to you does not have to determine what happens next.
Timestamps:
(00:00) Introduction to Dana Killion and Becoming Unbreakable
(02:00) Dana's story of addiction, betrayal, divorce, and profound loss
(05:30) Why trauma makes us question our history and identity
(08:00) What to do when you never get the “why”
(10:00) Creating your own “story of why” to find closure
(13:00) The three versions of your trauma story
(16:00) Loving someone struggling with addiction
(20:00) The question: “What if this is as good as it gets?”
(24:00) Why you cannot save another person
(28:00) How to know whether you're actually healed
(32:00) Turning a wound into a scar
(36:00) Trauma, forgiveness, and releasing resentment
(40:00) Why both people have emotional work to do
(43:00) What to do when trauma knocks you off your feet
(47:00) Baby steps: rebuilding confidence one action at a time
(50:00) How small steps become a ladder forward
Key Takeaways:
- Closure doesn't always have to come from the person who hurt you. Dana's “story of why” can help you create understanding from the facts you already know.
- Loving someone with an addiction does not give you the power to do their recovery work for them.
- Lingering bitterness and resentment may be signs that a traumatic experience still needs healing.
- You control how much of your story you share—and with whom.
- When divorce or trauma feels overwhelming, don't solve your entire future. Take one small, constructive step and build from there.
Guest Bio:
Dana Killion is an author, speaker, and trauma-informed guide whose work focuses on resilience, healing, and moving beyond survival. Her newest book, Becoming Unbreakable: A Big Sister’s Guide to Trauma, draws on her lived experience with an addictive marriage, divorce, the loss of both parents, relocation, and the death of her oldest son. Dana uses her story and hard-earned insights to help others understand trauma and move toward emotional wholeness.
Resource Links:
https://www.danakillion.com/?utm_source=chatgpt.com
OsteoStrong Minnesota — https://osteostrongmn.com/affiliate-referral-koski/
Soberlink for Family Law — https://www.soberlink.com/divorce/family-law?utm_source=affiliatelink&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=lesa-koski-affiliatelink
Affiliate disclosure: Some links above are affiliate links, which means I may receive a commission if you purchase through them, at no additional cost to you.
Tags/Keywords:
healing from divorce trauma, divorce trauma, divorce recovery, healing after divorce, betrayal trauma, divorce and addiction, alcoholic spouse, addiction and marriage, divorce after infidelity, trauma recovery, finding closure after divorce, emotional healing after divorce, divorce support for women, women over 40 divorce, divorce mediation, divorce coach, co-parenting, rebuilding after divorce, grief after divorce, forgiveness after betrayal, boundaries in marriage, Dana Killion, Becoming Unbreakable, Doing Divorce Different, Lesa Koski
Transcript
Welcome back to Doing Divorce Different.
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:I'm really thankful that you're
here today, and I'm thankful
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:for my guest, Dana Killian.
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:She is an author and she
writes a lot about trauma.
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:You've got a book coming out, Dana,
that is called Becoming Unbreakable.
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:Correct.
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:And I think this is going to really
hit home with a lot of my listeners
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:who are going through divorce,
which can be trauma in itself.
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:But I'm really interested.
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:We're gonna get to know Dana a
little bit and her story and what
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:led her to do this work, and then
we're going to look at trauma.
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:And, you know, I think sometimes we
don't even know when it's working in our
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:lives, and so I think it's gonna be good.
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:And I think, you know,
divorce is traumatic often,
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:so I think it's very timely-
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:that we talk about this.
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:So Dana, thank you so much for being here.
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:I really, I feel blessed to
have you and I'm really looking
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:forward to learning from you.
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:So welcome.
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:Well, thank you so much.
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:It's a pleasure to be here, and thank
you for talking about difficult things.
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:Yeah.
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:We all need to do a better job at that.
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:Yeah.
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:I agree.
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:I agree.
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:I know.
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:Why can't we just say it sometimes, right?
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:So can you share what led you
to write this book, and how did
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:you learn so much about trauma?
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:Uh, unfortunately lived experience.
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:Yeah.
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:Um, so I was married to an alcoholic,
and decades into the marriage,
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:um, he was finally getting sober,
and I found out while he was at
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:rehab that he had a secret life.
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:Mm.
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:His hobby was promiscuity And, uh, he
had an unknown number of sexual partners
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:during our marriage, and it turns out in
every relationship he had ever had prior.
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:So obviously trauma
and eventually divorce.
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:Um- Yeah … took a little longer than,
uh, one might think to get to the divorce
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:stage, but we did eventually get there.
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:Um, and my personal story was followed
up by, uh, a number of additional
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:traumas, and that basically started
a little cascade of about a l- eight
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:years in which I experienced not only
this secret about my marriage and my,
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:my husband, but death of both parents,
divorce, moving cross country, and most
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:recently the death of my oldest son.
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:Ah.
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:From fentanyl.
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:And, uh, so I, I unfortunately have
had more than my share of trauma.
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:But the process, the, the, the secret
life that my former husband led and living
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:with an alcoholic taught me so much about
trauma specifically and trauma processes.
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:Yeah.
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:And during this, um, this stage,
I had been a writer before.
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:I wrote fiction.
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:I had a mystery, I have a mystery
series, but I tried my hand at writing
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:memoir once I left the marriage.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:Because the process of being married
to an alcoholic, being on the
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:sidelines, it's extremely lonely.
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:It was part of my processing of the
marriage, but my emotional processing.
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:And that was part of my work, and
then it moved into a book that is, uh,
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:actually coming out today, which is-
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:More Trauma.
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:It's today?
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:Oh my gosh.
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:Today.
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:It is today.
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:Wonderful.
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:So you can celebrate with me in live time.
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:Oh my gosh.
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:That just gives me chills
because we will have a link so
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:people can purchase your book.
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:And I just, I'm so thankful for
you being here and sharing this
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:because I didn't know all that.
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:I didn't know.
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:You have been through a tremendous
amount, and not everybody who goes through
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:something or things that are really
hard has the courage to share it to help
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:other people, so what a blessing you are.
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:And I can't help but ask, I can't
imagine that it gets easier.
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:So you learn how to kind
of- Deal with the trauma.
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:I mean, how, how can we set
ourselves up to handle it better?
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:Yeah.
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:Obviously the first trauma of finding
out my husband's secret life was the,
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:the first really big hit, and there's so
much in that that your audience I'm sure
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:is going through- Yeah … similar things
or smaller versions of these things.
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:But it really comes down to
struggling with a couple of things.
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:One is, what is my history?
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:Mm-hmm.
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:What has been true in my life?
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:What has not been true?
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:Why has this man behaved this way?
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:And what does that say
about me and my identity?
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:So there's so much processing that goes
in there that all has to be dealt with.
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:And I think one of the most important
aspects of that for me in this stage
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:was trying to reconcile the love
that I had felt from him and for him.
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:And love does not disappear because
somebody behaves badly, but we're
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:grappling with that because this
man I love has treated w- me with
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:tremendous disrespect, and we have
choices to make in that moment.
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:Do we assume everything's been a
lie, or do we honor the parts of
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:the relationship that were true?
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:And so I had to grapple
with the why part of that.
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:Okay.
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:I'm, I'm so glad that you brought that up
because I've had therapists on, and they
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:always say the why is the most important.
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:Like, if people can understand why…
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:But for so many of my listeners, for so
many of us, we don't know the why- Mm-hmm
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:… and we're not, maybe not gonna get it.
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:Exactly.
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:And- What do you do with that?
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:Exactly.
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:And this is the most important thing
that I did for myself and that I want
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:everybody to pay really close attention
to because you're absolutely right.
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:The people that hurt us can't explain.
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:They haven't done their own healing yet.
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:Whatever they say will be only a
small portion of the explanation.
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:Or if it's, you know, something the
universe delivered, God isn't gonna
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:come down and give you the explanation.
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:What I did is something that I
call creating the story of why.
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:I gave myself an explanation.
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:I took what I knew, the facts about
his childhood, his history, his
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:psychology, his self-identity related
to work, what I knew about addiction
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:and the compartmentalization that he
had done to hide his drinking, and
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:therefore his sexual behavior as well.
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:I took all those histories at those
facts that I knew, and I packaged
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:them up, and I filled in the blanks,
and I created my own story of why.
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:Not to explain it to him- Right
… that's his work to do, but to let me
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:understand that I needed to let go.
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:I needed the closure And that process
was hugely, hugely valuable to me.
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:It was closure.
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:Well, and I love that- Without
it- … because you're not…
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:I'm sorry to interrupt you.
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:I didn't mean to do that.
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:But you're not making it up.
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:No.
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:You- it is what you know.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:Right?
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:And so you're using what you know.
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:You're not getting anything from the
other person- Mm-hmm … but you're using
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:what you know because then when you have
that answered, you can have closure.
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:Is that what you're saying?
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:Yes.
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:I made assumptions, you know, they're
common sense things that we can put
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:together, fill in the blanks, that the
person that hurt us is not yet capable
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:of seeing or analyzing for themselves.
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:And the only thing that matters
is that it is a complete story.
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:It's not a one-liner about
a, "Well, he had a rough
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:childhood," or alcoholic- Right
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:it is a complete story, and it must
be something believable and true to
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:me because its only purpose is for
me to use it to let go of the cycling
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:and the resentment and the anger.
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:It- Okay.
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:So let me ask you this.
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:So say you've got like a nosy kind
of, kind of friend- Mm-hmm … who's
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:like, "Why did he do that?"
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:Mm.
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:Do you share your story with her?
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:How do you handle that?
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:I have another process that I came up
with- … during the way here, and I
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:write, I write about these in the book.
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:And I recommend, what I did for myself
and what I recommend to others, these are
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:tough conversations, and we get frozen
in the moment of, how do I say this?
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:Mm-hmm.
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:Because it's just gonna reopen wounds.
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:So my advice is create three
versions of your trauma story.
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:A one-liner, a short story version,
and a novel length version.
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:The novel length goes to your therapist
or any really intimate trusted friend.
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:The one-liner is what you pop off
to the neighbor who's nosy and
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:you don't wanna tell them more.
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:So- But it gives you something to say.
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:If they ask for more, say, "I
just don't care to talk about it."
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:Right.
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:But you get to control
who you tell what to.
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:And so at that point it might
be, "Yeah, it's just childhood
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:stuff that he dealt with."
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:It could be I don't have
to say the full story.
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:I have to understand the story.
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:Right.
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:But I get to choose whether the person I'm
speaking to hears the one-liner, the short
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:story- Yeah … or the lo- the novel.
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:Yeah.
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:And that also is important to me
because I'm prepared when those
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:questions come up and I'm not frozen
like deer- Right … in the headlights.
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:I'm not reopening my pain.
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:Yeah.
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:And I'm taking control of the narrative,
which is really important after trauma.
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:I have control again- Mm-hmm … of
who I share my truth with.
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:That is one thing you have control over.
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:Like, we don't have
control over a lot, right?
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:But you do have control over that,
and I like the idea of planning ahead.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:You know, I had a coach that
taught me that, not even about,
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:even about, like, what am I gonna
eat for my meal when I go out.
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:You know what I mean?
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:Yeah.
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:Like, it's just planning ahead.
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:Um, I can't help but ask you, just
because I have a client today, um, and
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:she's dealing with addiction issues-
Okay … maybe some mental health
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:issues, and she's e- even been…
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:I'm, I've been married 34 years.
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:She's even been married
a little longer than me.
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:Mm.
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:And I heard you say after what you
went through, it took a lot long…
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:It took longer than we might expect- Yeah
… for you to go through the divorce.
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:Yeah.
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:Can you talk about that a little bit,
and can you possibly give some insight,
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:'cause s- I know this woman listens
to these podcasts, to help her because
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:she, she doesn't wanna get divorced.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:She wants him to help himself-
Yeah … and to get better.
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:Yeah.
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:But I feel like she's been waiting…
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:I mean, I think, and I think
he was and now not so much.
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:So I don't know.
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:Is it a boundary thing?
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:What…
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:And it, that's all trauma, right?
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:It is.
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:It is.
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:And, and this is so incredibly common.
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:This is a person we love- Yeah
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:and we want them to get better.
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:We want to have hope.
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:We want all the good things.
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:We love these people for a reason,
and our love doesn't die quickly.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:Nor should it.
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:Right.
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:I found out the truth of my husband's
behavior while he was in rehab,
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:finally, and he was in rehab for
me to try to save our marriage.
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:But the, the drinking part and
the sexual behavior part, they
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:were intertwined in his identity.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:And it doesn't just get turned off.
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:There is a…
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:Even if the booze is gone, there
is a reason behind the booze.
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:These are tools that the individual is
using to numb and distract from whatever
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:pain they're going through, and it's a
really hard thing to give up in anybody.
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:I…
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:It took me a few years between the time
I knew the truth of my husband's sexual
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:behavior and when I finally filed for
divorce, because I didn't want to either.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:I knew intellectually that I should
have run screaming- Yeah … for a very
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:serious divorce attorney, but I didn't,
because I thought he was trying- Yeah
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:and wanted us to try together.
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:But eventually what I found, and I, I
did learn this during COVID, is that that
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:isolation made me face a really critical
question, and that question was: What
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:if this is as, as good as it gets, ever?
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:If this is the rest of my
life, is this good enough?
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:I was so emotionally empty from
the trying, from the decades of his
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:addiction and for the hope, that
there was just nothing left of me.
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:Yeah.
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:And that is such an important question,
and it's really hard to get up to, to
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:get up the courage to ask yourself,
because we feel, particularly with
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:addicts, if I am not there, he will die.
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:Okay.
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:That- Now I'm gonna jump
in- … is language … again.
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:Yeah.
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:Here's another story.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:A very good friend of mine, um,
had been married many years to
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:an addict, and she was so…
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:She did, you know, it's a, you have kids.
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:You, you don't wanna get divorced.
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:You…
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:And she finally, finally did, and she
was so terrified that he was gonna die.
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:Yeah.
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:And he did.
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:Yeah.
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:He did.
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:Yeah.
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:And-
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:You know, so her, the
worst thing happened.
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:Now there was some beautiful things
in that they st- she still loved
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:him, she still connected to him.
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:He had moved far away, and she, the
night before this happened, she had
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:a really good conversation with him.
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:He had apologized.
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:He said he was gonna get
help, and then he passed away.
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:Yeah.
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:Um, but you can't
guarantee that they're not.
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:No And the reality is nobody
is coming to save us but us.
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:Oh, I know, isn't it…
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:God, I'm a Christian so I'm like,
surrender it to God, but yeah.
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:It, it, it, I, I have lived that.
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:I understand completely.
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:That is what the memoir that I wrote,
that's not the book we're talking
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:about today, but that's a prior book
that goes through these struggles
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:and talks about my experience being
married to this man who I adored.
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:Yeah.
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:And I can still…
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:I got to the place where I
still think he's an amazing man.
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:I loved him for a reason.
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:He loved me as much as he's
capable of loving me, but I can't
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:sacrifice myself on that altar.
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:Yeah.
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:And that's really hard for women who…
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:It's almost like we can become the,
the gods- Mm-hmm … for our husbands,
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:like we're going to save them- Yeah
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:or, you know, take care of
them and that's not our place.
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:No, but we can't make other people change.
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:Yeah.
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:We can offer them tools.
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:We can give guidance.
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:We can set boundaries.
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:But it does come down to
individuals wanting to change.
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:I know.
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:But- Whether it is from addiction
or our personal trauma, and this
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:is a conversation for us too
on the sidelines of addiction.
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:We have to want to change too.
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:Right.
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:Right, and if she is trying to get him to
make himself better because she's gonna
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:leave, that's not really, that would not
really be him fixing himself for him.
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:No.
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:It, it's not.
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:Trust me.
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:It's not.
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:Booze is, or substance, whatever
it is- Yeah … is only one part.
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:You can't get any healing for the
addict or in your relationship
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:if the booze is still there, if
the substance is still there.
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:But even when that substance is gone, we
have to understand, and the individuals
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:involved- Mm-hmm … need to go
through the work of what caused, what
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:was the source, what was the problem
that the individual was covering,
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:avoiding, numbing themselves from?
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:Mm-hmm.
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:In my former husband's case,
he doesn't like himself.
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:Underneath it all, he
does not love himself.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:And believed at an early, early
age that he did not deserve to be
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:loved because of a parental wound.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:That's his to deal with.
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:He had all the love and all of
the tools and all of the evidence
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:in front of him- But it only is
believable if he believes it.
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:Right.
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:And that's his work, not mine.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah, and so if he could have
done that work, you might, may
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:be in a different situation.
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:Yeah, it, I, you know, it was difficult
for us partly because how does one undo-
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:Yeah … decades of lying and infidelity?
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:We can stop behaviors, but do you ever
look at your partner the same again?
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:Do they even know themselves without
lying and compartmentalization?
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:Right.
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:I…
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:It, it, it ultimately came a decision
for me and my own healing that I couldn't
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:look at myself if I continued to stay
because I felt so empty and disrespected.
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:Yeah.
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:Even if he was doing the work, I couldn't
look at him the same way anymore.
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:Yeah.
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:As much as I wanted to.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:I totally understand that.
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:Okay, I wanna talk a little bit, I've
got some questions written over here,
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:about, um Like sometimes people think
they're healed, and they're not.
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:Like, how do we know if
trauma is in there somewhere?
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:This is an important one for me, because
when I first learned of my husband's
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:sexual behavior, I was lying in bed
every night thinking about somebody
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:that I knew who had had some rough
stuff in her marriage, different than
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:mine, but 10 years post-divorce she
was still angry and bitter and had
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:shut down any thoughts of ever having
a relationship again because men.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:I'm afraid to love again.
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:I'm afraid I will get hurt again.
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:And I thought about her, and I was
determined not to let that happen to me.
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:And I think this is a really
good marker for any one of us.
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:If we are years past the event- Okay
… and we are still bitter and angry and
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:resentful, your healing is not done.
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:You have not found closure-
Mm-hmm … in that trauma.
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:And that's where I would encourage
people to go back to that story of
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:why that we talked about earlier.
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:That is what will give you closure.
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:You have not let go of the
pain that was inflicted on you.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:You're holding onto it.
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:You think you're better because
you have found relief, but if
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:that resentment is still there
you've allowed it to stay a wound.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:It needs to become a scar.
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:It needs to be neutralized.
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:You need to be able to talk
about it without being triggered
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:and panicked and angry.
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:Yeah.
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:That's a sign that the event
has closed, that the closure
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:you've sought has been achieved.
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:You've neutralized the
extremes of the emotion.
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:Yeah.
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:Mm.
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:That's interesting, because you think
of things from when you were a child.
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:You know what I mean?
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:Think about those things that
could have caused you trauma.
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:That was a long time ago.
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:Yeah.
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:And you- Kind of ignore it.
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:Sure.
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:Try to almost forget about it, and then
it'll pop up again, and the memory will
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:be there, and you kind of brush it aside.
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:But if it pops up and it kind
of hurts, how do you heal that?
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:You think back to- Mm-hmm … that
story of why again.
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:Again, the people that, the things that
happen to us at any stage, whatever the
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:trauma is, if you felt, felt neglected as
a child or minimized in some way, go back
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:in time, think about what mommy might have
been doing that you didn't know about.
405
:What were her traumas?
406
:What was she- Mm … dealing with?
407
:Or whoever that happens to be.
408
:You know, mommy is an
easy one to think about.
409
:Right, right.
410
:What, what was going on that might
have, might give you some tools
411
:to understand what she was dealing
with so that you can let go of the
412
:resentment and, and replace that with,
"She was doing the best she could."
413
:Mm-hmm.
414
:She tried.
415
:You know, she gave me this.
416
:I didn't get that, but I
will find it elsewhere.
417
:Mm.
418
:Or maybe there's something
else you learned.
419
:It, to me, it always goes back to
finding ways to complete that story.
420
:Our human brains want story.
421
:We want closure, and we will
pull in accurate things,
422
:or we will blame ourselves.
423
:Mm.
424
:That's what my former husband did.
425
:He blamed himself unconsciously
for his teenage mother's
426
:inability to be a mom at 16.
427
:Think about that.
428
:It, it- Yeah … that is logical, but this
is a 60-some-year-old man who had plenty
429
:of time, but he chose not to do that work.
430
:Right.
431
:That is the kind of thing that we do.
432
:Go back in time, create the story
that will allow you to release
433
:your expectations of somebody else.
434
:Okay, that's so interesting because
when you were saying that, I was
435
:thinking about this thing that happened,
and it was kinda just like a…
436
:It wasn't my parents, but it was a mean
thing that someone said, just mean.
437
:A- and, um, I'm like, "Well, I don't know.
438
:I mean, I don't think there's any story.
439
:That was just mean."
440
:Obviously, there is a story.
441
:True.
442
:And there is a reason that this
person said something mean and hurtful
443
:to me because they were hurting.
444
:You know, there's something there, right?
445
:So there's al- And it's not about you.
446
:No.
447
:It was about them.
448
:Yeah.
449
:And that's part of the release.
450
:If we put ourselves in that,
those, those empathy shoes- Yeah
451
:because we take these things personally.
452
:When somebody is mean to
us- Yeah … what did I do?
453
:How did I deserve this?
454
:I think, "Is somebody
else gonna be mean to me?"
455
:Right.
456
:And often it is us projecting.
457
:So project in a different way.
458
:So that we create and close
this story loop to- And then
459
:you- … find our own closure
460
:then you let that go, and then it kinda
probably doesn't rear its head again.
461
:Correct.
462
:We always talk about
forgiveness in trauma work.
463
:I say close the trauma story first,
and then forgiveness will happen.
464
:I don't just put a label on it and
say, "Hey, you gotta forgive the guy."
465
:No, I don't.
466
:I have to understand, and I understand
by creating the story of why,
467
:because that's my tool, and it will
automatically create the release
468
:that we think of as forgiveness.
469
:Forgiveness is not just a label.
470
:For- Right … forgiveness is a feeling,
and that comes from closing the story loop
471
:Okay.
472
:And so for some people If they're in
a marriage and they can understand
473
:the why, I think I've seen this too.
474
:Mm-hmm.
475
:If the, if they are working together
and the spouse can explain why it
476
:happened and has done the work- Mm-hmm
477
:wow, that's way more healing, isn't it?
478
:It is.
479
:For both of them.
480
:It is.
481
:And that's what it takes to heal
these relationships, regardless of
482
:the cause, whether it's infidelity
or substance or anything else.
483
:If you wanna work on it, both
parties have to bring the same
484
:level of honesty and vulnerability
and internal processing- Yeah
485
:of each other and themselves.
486
:Too often we just get into
this blame game- Yes … it's
487
:somebody else's job to fix it.
488
:I'm not the problem.
489
:Well, you may not have caused it, but
you still have emotional work to do so
490
:that the problem does not control you.
491
:Right.
492
:Okay, so I'm gonna ask you, this
is kinda hard and kinda weird
493
:bec- but because we're, we're
kinda running out of time too.
494
:So for…
495
:Here's the thing.
496
:I went through something traumatic
a couple years ago, and I had
497
:done coaching before this, and I
thought I had it all figured out.
498
:Yeah.
499
:I knew how to get my mindset
right, and then this trauma
500
:hit- Mm-hmm … and I spun out.
501
:You know?
502
:I mean, I was terrified.
503
:I was…
504
:And I, I mean, I've got a book too
I'm working on that, like, talks
505
:about how I worked through it.
506
:But how can…
507
:I mean, and maybe you, maybe it's
hard to be prepared for that.
508
:I think one of the things that I
did was kind of surrendered what
509
:I couldn't control- Mm-hmm … and
only took care of what I could.
510
:Yep.
511
:Um, and I learned how I was probably
more afraid than I needed to be.
512
:Mm-hmm.
513
:But how can we help women
when something comes at them?
514
:And, because it's, there's some
times where you're just like,
515
:bluh, and all you can do is walk.
516
:Yeah.
517
:You know?
518
:And that's okay too.
519
:I mean- Yeah … there,
there are processing tools.
520
:We are in a moment, and we are reacting.
521
:Of course we are.
522
:Mm-hmm.
523
:And so often we know intellectually
what we should be doing, which,
524
:which is your experience.
525
:Yeah.
526
:You're a professional.
527
:Intellectually we know what to do.
528
:Emotionally, on the other
hand, the floor is gone.
529
:Yeah.
530
:And I'm standing there vulnerable.
531
:There aren't easy answers.
532
:The answer
533
:comes down to, however, little baby
steps of processing so we can get back
534
:to a place of finding some objectivity.
535
:I think of therapy as a process where
the therapist becomes my mirror-
536
:To show me the things that I can't
yet see, the things that I say I
537
:wanna change, but my behavior is
contradicting what I say I want.
538
:Mm-hmm.
539
:Healing comes when we start
becoming our own mirror.
540
:It's not that we're never, ever gonna
be upset or thrown for a loop again,
541
:but by having some of the tools
that we're talking about today, some
542
:of the tools that I'm putting in
this … have put in this book There is
543
:a process of, "Okay, I need to go back.
544
:I need to go back to this step.
545
:I need to reground myself.
546
:I need to think of my determination, and
I need to think of one action step I can
547
:take right now- Yeah … to get control
of my emotions and my narrative again."
548
:So baby steps.
549
:I like the baby- Yeah … micro steps.
550
:Um, and I think, too, I don't know
if you've found this to be true, but
551
:just to give yourself a little time.
552
:Oh, yeah.
553
:I think I always felt
like, "Hurry up and fix…"
554
:Like, I wanna fix everything.
555
:I mean, I do divorce mediation.
556
:I wanna- I wanna fix it.
557
:I wanna help you come to a solution.
558
:That's my whole life is solutions.
559
:And sometimes you just have
to stop and sit with it.
560
:And it wasn't like, um, it wasn't
like I was in a huge depression.
561
:I wasn't happy.
562
:Mm.
563
:Um, but there was some kinda weird
underlying peace just to allow myself
564
:that time to just kinda sit with it-
Yeah … which I don't normally do.
565
:Well, in your line of work, you're dealing
with the dollars and the cents and the-
566
:Yeah … kids what and all of those
things which are really practical things.
567
:When we are facing divorce- Yeah … or
anything that is a big trauma, we get
568
:so overwhelmed with the, the end result.
569
:Yes.
570
:Yes.
571
:We don't need to.
572
:No.
573
:What we need to do is start with,
what is one thing I can do today?
574
:What is one thing I can research?
575
:Yeah.
576
:I can research divorce attorneys.
577
:Exactly.
578
:That, that is not a
decision to get a divorce.
579
:It is a decision to get more information.
580
:Yeah.
581
:It is a decision to
understand the process.
582
:It is a decision to start
thinking about documents or
583
:what would life after be like?
584
:And those are deci- Right … all
little tiny decisions.
585
:It is not one big thing.
586
:Yeah.
587
:Take the baby steps, and the
baby steps become a ladder, and
588
:that ladder gives you a tool.
589
:I love that, and I mean, it's like the
perfect place to end because I think
590
:once you are taking those baby steps,
you have evidence that you can do it.
591
:Yeah.
592
:So those little tiny things, you're
like, "Well, I did that yesterday.
593
:I can do one more little thing,"
and then it just keeps growing.
594
:So.
595
:Our confidence is shot after
divorce, after trauma of any kind.
596
:Mm-hmm.
597
:Something was done to
us that we didn't want.
598
:Right.
599
:And regaining some sense of control is
hugely important, and we can do that in
600
:constructive ways or destructive ways.
601
:Right.
602
:And as a divorce person - … I
mean, you see all the ugly
603
:ways in which people act out.
604
:During these times Yeah What we
need is the good tiny bits of
605
:control we can pull into our lives.
606
:Yes.
607
:So think about baby steps.
608
:Yeah And then, then there'll
be another baby step.
609
:Yeah.
610
:The ladder.
611
:All right.
612
:Thank you.
613
:My pleasure.
614
:Thank you so much.
615
:I feel like this was just a huge
blessing, and I think a lot of people
616
:are gonna love to hear this episode.
617
:So thank you so much for being here.
618
:I'm gonna get…
619
:I'm gonna read your book.
620
:Please do.
621
:And I'll probably- Thank
you … be talking about it more.
622
:I might have to have you
back on- I'd love that.
623
:Thank you … uh, yeah, after
I get a chance to read it.
624
:Great.
625
:So thank you so much for being here.
626
:It is my pleasure.
627
:All right, you take good care.
628
:You too.
