Breaking the Stigma: How Attorney Mark Astor Helps Families Fight Addiction & Mental Health Battles

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Welcome listeners.

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I am so happy that you're with me today.

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I have Mark Astor.

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He is an attorney in Florida and

he's really unique and that I think,

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mark, you tell me if I'm wrong.

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I think you're the only law

firm in the US that focuses on

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mental health and addiction.

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And what a need you must be filling.

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What were you gonna say?

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Did I get that wrong?

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Speaker: Well, I was gonna agree

with you actually, but you did.

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You said it so nicely.

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I, I felt like I should just keep quiet,

which for a lawyer is not so easy to do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Well, I'm glad that you're here and

I think for my listeners, I think.

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Everyone is just gonna be really

curious as to what led you down this

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path, because I'm sure it wasn't easy.

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I'm sure when you started out

it was kind of, um, hard to get

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things going and I think people

wanna know what kind of things do

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you, how do you represent people?

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Because all of us have dealt with.

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Someone in our lives or ourselves

who have had an issue with

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mental illness or addiction.

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And so I think your message is

gonna just ring out for everyone.

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I mean, not just, you know what I mean?

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Not just people going through

divorce, not just people going

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through, you know, whatever diagnosis.

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But you know, people in

general have this issue.

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Speaker: Yeah, it's, it's been,

it's been a journey for me.

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You know, it really has.

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And I've been, this is

my 31st year of practice.

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Um, I've been doing.

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This for the last 10 years.

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We started, actually, I opened up the

practice in February of: 2016

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actually started the practice outside

out of the local library here in Boca.

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Uh, I had no money.

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I was pretty much, well, not pretty

much, I was flat broke, but I had

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an idea and they had free wifi

and they had a, a little coffee

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shop with half decent coffee.

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It seemed like a good

place to start a law firm.

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But, um, prior to that, so my legal

career, the first five years I was a

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prosecutor here in Palm Beach County.

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Um.

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Putting bad people, you know, some

of them in prison for a long time.

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But one of the things I noticed very

early on, um, really the first year

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I was a prosecutor, was kept seeing

the same faces over and over again.

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And I said, well, there's

something not right here.

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What's the problem?

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And what I realized was these

were people who are dealing with

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issues with, you know, substance

related, mental health related.

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And back in the early nineties when I was

prosecutor, we, we simply didn't have any.

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Other avenue through the criminal

system to get these people help.

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Now we have different courts, you know,

in the criminal system like mental health

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court, drug court, veterans court, that,

that are really designed to get people

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out of the criminal system and, and get

them some help so they don't continue

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to come back because the mandate, um,

even now, uh, here in Florida and has

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been as long as I've been around, is

to punish first and rehabilitate second

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if you end up in the criminal system.

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So I was there for five years.

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I did a lot of defense work after that.

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I got married and divorced.

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Um, I took a year off, spent a year in dc.

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I went back to school in oh four

to get a master's degree in law.

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I also worked in a presidential

campaign for a year.

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Um, I came back to Florida 'cause

the candidate I worked for didn't

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win and I didn't get a job.

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I was hoping to get a job

out of that, but I didn't.

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Um, I spent a couple more

years back in Florida.

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I'll be, be honest with you, it

was a time in my life where I

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was, I was really quite miserable.

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I loved being a prosecutor, not

because I liked putting people

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away, but because it gave me.

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It gave me a lot of personal satisfaction

when you are, you know, when you have

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a case where there's a, a victim of a

violent felony or you have the family of

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a decedent, whether where it's a murder

case and you get them some closure.

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It's, for me personally, I

found it very satisfying.

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It didn't pay very well, but the

first, I think two or three years

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I lived at home with my parents

after I got outta law school.

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'cause they just don't pay you all.

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But it was a, a fabulous place to

get a lot of, of training and, and

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skills and, um, I missed, I missed

that personal satisfaction so.

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About 15 years ago, I left with what

I had after the oh eight crashed.

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I went to California for three

years, where I basically spent

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three years tripping the light.

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Fantastic out there.

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Um, I took the bar there twice.

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I failed it twice.

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I came back after three years

'cause I was pretty much tapped out.

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Um, I took it a third time

and failed at a third time.

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I actually was, I got within a percentage

point the third time of, of passing it.

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But, uh, so that was a bit

bit of a kick to the ego.

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'cause I think I studied for about

three weeks and I spent a year studying

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for the California bar and Pass.

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Um, and meanwhile friends and

family were telling me, you're

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supposed to be in Florida, you're

not listening to the universe.

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Yeah.

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Open up your ears.

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Um, and then I met somebody that basically

changed the, the, the path of my life.

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So I met a, I met.

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I met a guy, his name is Arjan Robbins.

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Arjan Robbins runs a company in Miami

called How to Manage a small law Firm,

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and they teach lawyers the business

side of being a lawyer, which is not

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something they teach you in any law

school anywhere in the country, but at

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the very core of how to manage, they are

a personal growth company for lawyers.

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Can you believe that postal growth

for lawyers and God, we need it.

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And I, I, I, I saw him present

to a group of lawyers about

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being an entrepreneurial lawyer.

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And after seeing him speak,

I begged him for a job.

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'cause I didn't have, I wasn't, I

was unemployed when I came back.

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Yeah.

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Um.

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I spent a year working for him.

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Learned about the business side of

being an entrepreneurial lawyer,

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but it was also a year for me to

really grow up and put my big boy

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pants on and take a hundred percent

responsibility for my crappy life, right?

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That was why I had no money in the

bank, nothing going on professionally,

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nothing going on personally, and

I took responsibility for it.

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And when I really thought about it, I

realized I had close family members and

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friends who had issues primarily related

to drugs, but some with mental illness.

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And I said, okay.

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That's who I'm going to help.

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And I didn't know how

I was going to do it.

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I didn't have a business plan, but

I sat myself down in the library

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and just wrote a, compiled, an

Excel spreadsheet of all the people

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that I had ever had contact with.

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And I just started, you know, smiling and

dialing and making contact with people.

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Um, I had read about the Marchman Act,

which is a statute unique to Florida,

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which we still use to this day in the

office, which is designed to give a

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family the ability, the legal authority.

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To place somebody into treatment

for chunks of 90 days where there

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is a primary substance use disorder.

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Now, at the time there were

only two lawyers who were,

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who were using the March Act.

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One was south of me and he sued

nursing homes and one was north

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of me and he was a family lawyer

and the guy south didn't go north.

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The guy north didn't go south.

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They kept it quiet,

they made lots of money.

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And then I came along and spoiled

the party for them and started

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talking about it on social media.

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Well, the guy down south got wind of this

'cause it was affecting his bottom line.

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And he went and registered the fictitious

thing to my website and sent me an

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asked email threatening to shut me down.

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And I said, okay, bring it on.

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Show me what you got.

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And anyway, long story short is

after I kicked his ass around

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the courtroom several times he

decided he'd just rather hate me as

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opposed to trying to shut me down.

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But, um, the first year I took

cases, I took different kinds

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of cases just to pay the bills.

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I was able to get a very small

office, um, which we even, which we

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still have actually here in Boca.

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Um, which was just a tiny bit bigger

than the desk that was sitting in

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it, but it was an office and it

was a real place to plant my flag.

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And, um, the first 11

months in, I lost my dad.

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So that was a really crying time

and I didn't have, I wasn't exactly

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rolling in the dough, so scrapping

together, the money to bury him was

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not, was not a, was just, it was,

it was a difficult time for me.

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I was trying to grow the business.

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I lost my dad.

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Um, and there was, you know,

see some fallout in the family

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'cause it affected everybody.

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And he'd been sick for a long time too.

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So.

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Um, trying times.

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Um, I persevered.

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I met my now wife, she's my law partner,

but we got married 18 months ago.

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I met her the second year

that I had the practice.

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She also had a small office in, in the

same building that I, that we are in now.

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And, um, she had a, a tremendous

background in guardianship,

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which traditionally has been

used for elderly people.

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My wife being the brilliant lawyer,

that she is far more, far more brilliant

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than me, if I can even call myself.

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Brilliant.

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She came up with a creative idea

that we could use guardianship, a

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statute for elderly people to help

families who have loved ones with

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substance use and mental health issues.

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And it would give them far more

control of what is a completely

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out of control situation.

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And we worked together for seven years.

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Um, got married 18 months ago, and

the first seven years it was just

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the two of us doing everything.

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Sales, the marketing, meeting with the

clients, doing the, you know, doing

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all the drafting, running to court.

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I mean, we worked eight days a week

in 25 hours a day for seven years.

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Fortunately, the last two years,

um, we've been able to build a team.

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So there's now I think, 12 of us.

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Wow.

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Which means I sit here and, and talk to

you for as long as you want to talk to me.

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General rule, my phone shouldn't

ring, although I did put it on silent.

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But it's, it's, it's enabled us to, um,

to really change the dynamics and give a

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really great experience for our clients.

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And every year the business

has grown significantly.

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Um, COVID, OD two things really changed

the dynamics of, of the cases that we

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handle and how we handle them, COVID

and the legalization of marijuana.

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COVID came along and people who had

not had issues started to have issues.

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People that were in

recovery started to relapse.

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They couldn't get in to see

their clinicians and their

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psychiatrists and psychologists.

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They started calling 9 1 1 and 2

1 1 and showing up at hospitals,

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showing up at Baker Act, receiving

facilities, which is a state facility

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for, for mental health crises.

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And they started getting sucked

into Florida's mental health

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system and couldn't get out.

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And I started getting all those calls now.

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Eight years ago, was it six?

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No, six years ago, five years ago.

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When we started getting those calls, just

about every lawyer that that I'd ever

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spoken to said, you know, if you get Baker

Acted, which is our, our state involuntary

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commitment statute, you can't get out.

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I'm somewhat creative when it comes to

those types of things and fast forward

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now I'm probably the, I'd like to say we

are the leader in Baker Act defense work.

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I'm certainly probably the state's

leading expert on that issue because it

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happened to my family member too, just

a couple days after my father passed.

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So we, we have a whole, you know, half

of the practice now that helps to get.

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People out of Florida's broken mental

health system and into a facility of

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their own choice where they can get

clinically appropriate treatment.

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But we also take calls now

from all over the country.

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Far West is Hawaii, that

northeast corridor, New York, New

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Jersey, Massachusetts, that area

occasionally outside of the country.

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And they come to us because they have

a loved one who's got a longstanding

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history of drug issues and mental illness.

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And they're sick and tired

of being sick and tired.

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And they say, Hey, can you fix this?

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And the answer to that is yes.

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It takes time because these,

you know, your family member

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has been sick for a long time.

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It's gonna take a little time to get

them well, and so I have a whole team

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of, I have clinicians, I have a, a, a

whole team of private investigators.

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I've got, there's four lawyers in the

office, case managers, paralegals.

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I mean, I have, I built a whole team

around doing one thing and one thing

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only, which is to save families

whose loved ones are suffering from

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substance use mental health disorders,

and failed attempts at recovery.

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That's what we do.

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That's all we've done.

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And so, yeah, there are other law firms

sort of sort of, you know, nipping at

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my heels trying to do the same thing.

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But this is all that we do.

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I don't take any other kind of case.

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If you call me about a car

accident, I'll refer you out.

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If you wanna get divorced,

I'm referring you out.

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We don't do that kind of work.

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I do one thing.

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That's it.

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That's our mission.

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Speaker 2: Wow, there is like so

much, and I didn't even take notes

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because I was so into your story.

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You really do you have a journey?

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Yes.

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Yes.

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And you know, mark, when I think

about, I think a lot of people think,

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oh, attorneys, they're just loaded,

you know, criminals and you share.

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It's a struggle, especially

when you're on your own.

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And so I love the hearing.

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How you, I wish I could have, have

talked to the man that you worked

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for, um, years ago to help me as an

entrepreneur, get a law practice.

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You know what I mean?

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Get that going because it sounds like

you just really found your niche,

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you know, and you're just like,

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Speaker: here's what,

here's what saved me.

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Finding a bunch of

people that needed help.

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Going out there and helping them,

finding a mission, a purpose, a

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reason to get outta bed every morning.

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That's what saved me.

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And by, by building a business that

saves other families, I saved my own.

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Right?

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I was able to build a business

so I could take care of my mom.

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After my father passed,

yeah, I met my wife.

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I have two amazing stepchildren.

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I've hired a dozen.

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You know, we have 12, 12 staff members

now they get to live a great life, right?

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And so by finding a

purpose, I saved myself.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That's it.

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Really.

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Nothing else do it.

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And it, and you know, people say,

oh, you're an overnight success.

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Well, maybe, but it took

me 10 years to get there.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly.

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Speaker: Still hustle every single day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Good for you.

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That's an amazing, amazing story.

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And then all these things started

coming into my mind as I'm

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thinking through people I know

who are going through things.

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Even with like a, I know it's always

hard when, like a kiddo turns 18.

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I had a really good friend who's,

they didn't realize, um, her daughter

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had mental illness and they didn't

realize it until she turned 18.

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And so there was no way that

she could make her get help.

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Speaker: What, what triggered

them to realize she had a problem.

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Speaker 2: She had issues in high

school, and I think she was kind of

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an older senior, you know what I mean?

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Like her birthday was so that

she was 18 as a senior, and so I

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think it was the trouble in school

that finally got them looking.

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But I like, okay, so I am, I'm

right now in my barn in Wisconsin.

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I always practiced in Minnesota.

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I don't like know about like good

things happening to people and I

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don't hear about them getting help.

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I hear about them, you know, I've

got another family, love them dearly.

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Have a beautiful son who's the

father of three girls and he's.

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Got issues, you know, with

addiction and, um, and with the law.

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And he just keeps, it just keeps

going, you know what I mean?

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It's just like he gets put

in jail, then he gets out.

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And then here's another thing, mark,

tell me if I'm crazy, but, so he gets

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a DUI, so they take away his license.

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Okay?

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Like I get that like you don't want

anyone to get hurt, but then he's gotta

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work and he has no way to get there.

310

: 00:14:35

And so you'd, you have to have

someone that's willing to drive you.

311

: 00:14:38

Is that normal?

312

: 00:14:39

And how can you help people in all these

other states if you're just in Florida?

313

: 00:14:43

Speaker: There's a couple of issues

there, so let's talk about as if

314

: 00:14:46

that, that DUI was in Florida.

315

: 00:14:48

It's been a while since I handled the

DUI case, although I used to file 'em

316

: 00:14:51

when I was prosecutor, but generally

as a, as a, as a general rule, as long

317

: 00:14:55

as no one's been seriously injured,

and it's the first DUI in Florida,

318

: 00:14:58

you're probably going to be entitled

to get some kind of work permit, which

319

: 00:15:00

means you can go to, you can drive to

work, you can't drive socially, but you

320

: 00:15:04

can go to work if it's a second, DUI.

321

: 00:15:06

Again, depending on when the first one

was and if there was an accident and

322

: 00:15:08

things of that nature, maybe, maybe not.

323

: 00:15:11

So that's the first thing.

324

: 00:15:12

So here in Florida, we're reasonably

proactive with that stuff,

325

: 00:15:14

but if you get enough of these

things that they will let you,

326

: 00:15:16

Speaker 2: that's, that's what happened.

327

: 00:15:17

He's had enough of these things and so,

328

: 00:15:20

Speaker: yeah,

329

: 00:15:20

Speaker 2: I think he did have a

work permit at first and now no.

330

: 00:15:26

Speaker: So that's the DUI.

331

: 00:15:27

The second part is how do we help people?

332

: 00:15:28

So I will tell you, um, my wife and I

both bought in Massachusetts, so we can

333

: 00:15:32

take cases up there, but most of our,

our, our clients are moms and dads.

334

: 00:15:37

Typically moms and dads, not always,

but most of the time they call us from

335

: 00:15:41

somewhere else other than Florida.

336

: 00:15:44

And their loved one is either

here in Florida or coming here,

337

: 00:15:48

or we need to get 'em here.

338

: 00:15:49

And there's a number of

ways that we can do that.

339

: 00:15:51

Um.

340

: 00:15:53

Sometimes we like to give

somebody a vacation in Florida

341

: 00:15:55

and then, then I can grab them.

342

: 00:15:57

Um.

343

: 00:15:59

But the laws down here in Florida I think

are probably the best in the country when

344

: 00:16:03

it comes to dealing with issues related

to substance use and mental illness.

345

: 00:16:07

And again, it, you know, it, it does

vary by county, you know, that they was,

346

: 00:16:11

the old joke is the further north you go

in Florida or the further south you've

347

: 00:16:14

got, so there are some counties here in

Florida that are just a little bit more

348

: 00:16:17

switched onto this stuff than others.

349

: 00:16:19

Um, and there are some counties

where I may file one case, but not

350

: 00:16:23

another, just because I know that.

351

: 00:16:24

The, you know, the, the, the resources

are just not good enough in that

352

: 00:16:28

county to support us filing a case and

getting a great result for the client.

353

: 00:16:32

But as a general rule, we've got

somebody here, we need them here because

354

: 00:16:36

otherwise the court in Florida does not

have jurisdiction over them, and they

355

: 00:16:39

don't have to be a resident of Florida.

356

: 00:16:41

I mean, they don't even have

to be a citizen as long as like

357

: 00:16:43

they are physically in Florida.

358

: 00:16:45

That will give the court, depending which

county they're in the jurisdiction to,

359

: 00:16:49

to, to take effect and to, to be able

to give us some relief over that person.

360

: 00:16:54

So, okay,

361

: 00:16:55

Speaker 2: so tell me about that.

362

: 00:16:56

So give you relief.

363

: 00:16:57

Okay.

364

: 00:16:57

So say this mom calls

you about, about her.

365

: 00:17:03

I mean, he's like in his thirties, right?

366

: 00:17:06

And still just CI going

through the same thing.

367

: 00:17:08

Okay.

368

: 00:17:09

So she has to get him to Florida so

that he can find the help in that.

369

: 00:17:16

How can we start doing

this in other states?

370

: 00:17:18

Do you feel like you just wanna

spread this across the us?

371

: 00:17:22

Speaker: Um, we're working on that bit.

372

: 00:17:25

We are, um, so the, the, the, the, the

statute that we love to use, and I know we

373

: 00:17:30

talked about guardianship before because

every state has some form of guardianship.

374

: 00:17:35

I, I think that, that if there are

other law firms out there wanna do

375

: 00:17:37

this, I mean, we'd certainly willing

to talk to 'em and partner with 'em

376

: 00:17:39

about how they could use guardianship.

377

: 00:17:42

But it's not just a matter of getting

the court order, it's the resources

378

: 00:17:44

that are also available down here.

379

: 00:17:46

Yeah.

380

: 00:17:46

So I mean, you know, Florida's ALS

always been known for treatment.

381

: 00:17:49

It has as California and I think

Texas and maybe Tennessee as well.

382

: 00:17:53

But we had a, a task force down

here, especially in Palm Beach

383

: 00:17:56

County that did an amazing job.

384

: 00:17:58

Led by our former state attorney, Dave

Ehrenberg, of cleaning up the industry.

385

: 00:18:01

I mean, they went around and

arrested people who were doing

386

: 00:18:04

all these nefarious things.

387

: 00:18:05

So Florida has great treatment.

388

: 00:18:07

We have really tough law

enforcement keeping an eye on

389

: 00:18:10

these facilities, and it's a really

great place to come and get well.

390

: 00:18:13

And we have the laws that enable

you to basically grab somebody.

391

: 00:18:18

Take control of them and so that we can

empower the families to start making

392

: 00:18:23

decisions for their loved one, because

when somebody is, is sick with these,

393

: 00:18:28

with a behavioral health issue, it's

as if their brain has been kidnapped.

394

: 00:18:32

And so expecting them, hoping that,

that they can, or asking them to make a

395

: 00:18:37

decision to save themselves, it sounds

like a reasonable request, but in their

396

: 00:18:42

mind, there's nothing wrong with them.

397

: 00:18:43

In fact.

398

: 00:18:45

Not only is there nothing wrong with

them, there's something wrong with

399

: 00:18:47

everybody else in the family that they

keep asking them to go and get help.

400

: 00:18:51

That's how, that's how sick they are.

401

: 00:18:54

And, and I use that word, that word

sort of somewhat broadly because it

402

: 00:18:59

may look like them, sound like them,

walk like them, but it's not them.

403

: 00:19:02

Right.

404

: 00:19:03

This, the behavioral health

issue is running the show.

405

: 00:19:06

Here in Florida, you know, I think one

of the, the worst things that we did was

406

: 00:19:10

we, we have made marijuana available.

407

: 00:19:14

And it's not supposed to be recreational,

but for all intents and purposes it is.

408

: 00:19:17

Mm-hmm.

409

: 00:19:18

Um, and that has been

an unmitigated disaster.

410

: 00:19:21

It really has.

411

: 00:19:21

And I didn't think it would be, 'cause

as a child of the eighties, growing up in

412

: 00:19:24

England and had a number of friends that

used marijuana, but it, it has really

413

: 00:19:28

poured gasoline on a mental health fire.

414

: 00:19:31

And so if there, if there's any

predisposition for mental illness and your

415

: 00:19:34

loved one's using marijuana, buckle up.

416

: 00:19:36

It's going to get, it's

gonna be a wild ride.

417

: 00:19:39

Speaker 2: Okay.

418

: 00:19:39

I, and that's why I'm like, oh

my gosh, just stay away from it.

419

: 00:19:43

Just stay.

420

: 00:19:44

And mark, you're hitting on something

where I feel a little bit alone on

421

: 00:19:49

how I feel about marijuana and you

know, like I'm fine if there's like,

422

: 00:19:54

I don't know a doctor that that

needs you, but it is so popular.

423

: 00:20:00

Ever.

424

: 00:20:00

I mean, it's like my hubby

goes golfing with his buddies

425

: 00:20:03

and they're chewing gummies.

426

: 00:20:05

You know, people use it

to go to sleep at night.

427

: 00:20:08

And then we wonder why people are

breaking down and having mental illness.

428

: 00:20:12

And then I've heard about, now this

is out totally out of my realm.

429

: 00:20:16

I'm just talking as a wife and a

mama, you know, and a grandma, and

430

: 00:20:20

just what I feel inside about it.

431

: 00:20:22

It just doesn't feel right.

432

: 00:20:23

But alcohol's kind of nasty too, you know?

433

: 00:20:27

Like I think about when

I raised my babies.

434

: 00:20:30

It was a thing of I'm a better

mom when I have a glass of wine.

435

: 00:20:33

Well, that can come back and shoot you in

the foot because that's not good either.

436

: 00:20:37

But I think there, I have heard,

and you're more of the expert on

437

: 00:20:41

this than me, that for someone

who like may have schizophrenia in

438

: 00:20:49

their family history, if they start

using marijuana and they're younger.

439

: 00:20:54

It's gonna make it happen where it

may not have happened if they didn't.

440

: 00:20:57

Is that true?

441

: 00:20:58

I mean, that's really unscientific

442

: 00:21:00

Speaker: and I'll give you an

unscientific, um, answer, which is Yeah,

443

: 00:21:04

I mean, based on what we see that, you

know, if there's any predisposition for,

444

: 00:21:09

for mental health issues, um, a little

marijuana just goes a long, long way into,

445

: 00:21:15

into really making things combustible.

446

: 00:21:17

I mean, you know, we get a call,

I, I it's, it's very obvious to us.

447

: 00:21:21

Pretty early in the call when

we speak to, to parents, there's

448

: 00:21:24

marijuana involved because there's,

there's typically, you know, paranoia

449

: 00:21:29

and delusions associated with it.

450

: 00:21:31

You know, when they start telling

me that the, their loved one

451

: 00:21:34

thinks that the FBI is spying

on, on them through the computer.

452

: 00:21:37

You know, which may or may not be

true these days, but the point,

453

: 00:21:40

Speaker 2: right?

454

: 00:21:41

Speaker: Yeah.

455

: 00:21:41

I mean, the point, the point

will likely to be spying on me

456

: 00:21:43

than, than than somebody else.

457

: 00:21:45

But in any event, the point is, you

know, those are sort of indicators

458

: 00:21:48

of that something's not right.

459

: 00:21:49

And I think part of the problem

is there's that, that if, if the

460

: 00:21:52

parents are around that, I'll

speak for myself my age and I'm 58.

461

: 00:21:55

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

462

: 00:21:57

Speaker: Because like me, they

were a child of the eighties.

463

: 00:22:00

They probably don't think

it's that big of a deal.

464

: 00:22:01

It wasn't back in the eighties.

465

: 00:22:03

Although I had some friends who,

you know, who never really got back.

466

: 00:22:05

Speaker 2: Well, it was to me and I'm 57,

467

: 00:22:08

Speaker: go bless.

468

: 00:22:10

Right.

469

: 00:22:11

Um,

470

: 00:22:12

Speaker 2: maybe it was

different in the uk.

471

: 00:22:14

I don't know.

472

: 00:22:15

Um.

473

: 00:22:17

But it's scary.

474

: 00:22:18

What's scary to me, like what

you're saying is that I see a

475

: 00:22:21

lot of people my age and younger

and everybody thinks it's okay.

476

: 00:22:25

It's in the drinks that they drink.

477

: 00:22:27

It's, you know, and then they don't think

it's such a big deal if they're kids.

478

: 00:22:32

You know what I mean?

479

: 00:22:33

Because, and then, and then they

have it in the home probably.

480

: 00:22:38

So then their kids can

get it and Go ahead.

481

: 00:22:41

Speaker: I think part of the problem is

that the people say, well, it's legal,

482

: 00:22:44

or they, they have a card, so it's safe.

483

: 00:22:47

No, no.

484

: 00:22:49

I just, I respectfully disagree with

anybody who says that it is not safe.

485

: 00:22:53

And just because it's legal,

it's like, you know, last year

486

: 00:22:56

I had surgery twice on my arm.

487

: 00:22:57

I had to get it repaired.

488

: 00:22:58

I, I tore up the tendon

on my left, uh, elbow.

489

: 00:23:00

And both times the doctor, after

I had the surgery said to me, oh,

490

: 00:23:03

I'm gonna prescribed you Oxycontin.

491

: 00:23:05

I said, I'm not taking it.

492

: 00:23:06

It's going down the toilet.

493

: 00:23:07

He said, you'll be in pain.

494

: 00:23:08

I said, I'd rather be

in pain than take those.

495

: 00:23:10

'cause I know what those can do to you.

496

: 00:23:12

They're addictive and they're dangerous.

497

: 00:23:13

So I didn't take 'em.

498

: 00:23:14

He gave me the prescription, I filled it

and flushed it down the toilet both times.

499

: 00:23:18

Yeah.

500

: 00:23:18

Um, so I'm not taking that stuff.

501

: 00:23:20

I mean just 'cause it's just 'cause

it's prescribed or because it's

502

: 00:23:23

legal doesn't mean it's safe.

503

: 00:23:25

Speaker 2: Right.

504

: 00:23:26

Speaker: Can't be abused.

505

: 00:23:27

Now, are there medicinal purposes for it?

506

: 00:23:30

I mean, I believe that there are,

I mean, somebody who's got terminal

507

: 00:23:32

cancer who's in significant pain, right?

508

: 00:23:35

I think it could be useful for

those purposes, but I think if

509

: 00:23:37

you are a young person, I'm,

I'm wondering why you need it.

510

: 00:23:41

Well,

511

: 00:23:42

Speaker 2: and Mark, I, and I don't mean

to interrupt you, but I even, I think

512

: 00:23:45

probably it was about maybe 15 years

ago, I had to get my appendix taken out.

513

: 00:23:51

It was simple.

514

: 00:23:53

I didn't even think it was that bad.

515

: 00:23:54

Right?

516

: 00:23:55

And they were like, oh, you have to

take, I'm like, I don't have any pain.

517

: 00:23:59

You have to stay on top of it.

518

: 00:24:01

I never had pain.

519

: 00:24:02

I never took it.

520

: 00:24:03

I think they made me in the

hospital and then I never took it.

521

: 00:24:06

And it's like, why are they pushing that?

522

: 00:24:08

Why are they pushing me to

take it when I don't have pain?

523

: 00:24:11

To stay on top of it?

524

: 00:24:12

If it gets mad, I'll take something.

525

: 00:24:14

Right.

526

: 00:24:15

But yeah, I, I so agree with that too.

527

: 00:24:17

And that's such a problem in our country.

528

: 00:24:19

And what is that all about?

529

: 00:24:22

Speaker: You know, it's

funny, my brother is a doctor.

530

: 00:24:24

Um, my daughter is, works at a hospital.

531

: 00:24:27

Okay.

532

: 00:24:27

Yeah.

533

: 00:24:28

Before that he was a, a naturopath and

he know what he told me was the hardest,

534

: 00:24:32

hardest part of medical school, learning

all the different medications that

535

: 00:24:35

they, they've been told to prescribe.

536

: 00:24:38

And I have, you know, I have

a brother-in-law who's also,

537

: 00:24:40

he's in private practice and.

538

: 00:24:42

He, he would get inundated, you know, like

day after day after day with these really

539

: 00:24:47

beautiful pharmaceutical reps coming in.

540

: 00:24:49

And I know that, 'cause when I was

single, he was setting me up on day two.

541

: 00:24:53

And, and, and this is

what we're pushing, right?

542

: 00:24:56

We're, we're pushing medication,

we're teaching our doctors

543

: 00:24:58

to prescribe medication.

544

: 00:24:59

And I'm not saying that we

shouldn't prescribe medications.

545

: 00:25:02

There's a time and a place, but.

546

: 00:25:06

I mean, it, it seems like that is

a, is a very big part of, of, uh,

547

: 00:25:10

our, our healthcare, if you can even

call it healthcare at this point.

548

: 00:25:13

Speaker 2: Right.

549

: 00:25:13

Okay.

550

: 00:25:13

Now I'm gonna really, I'm gonna

dive off on a tangent that I

551

: 00:25:16

never expected to get on today.

552

: 00:25:17

Let's stop.

553

: 00:25:18

But I, so part of my journey was

I had stage one breast cancer,

554

: 00:25:23

and it was just like a year ago

or a little over a year ago.

555

: 00:25:28

And I, it was all good 'cause it was teeny

tiny and, but I had to go through chemo.

556

: 00:25:35

Radiation because of the type that

it was still 98% good outcome.

557

: 00:25:41

So don't look sad, I'm gonna be fine.

558

: 00:25:43

But it was hard.

559

: 00:25:44

It was really, really hard for me.

560

: 00:25:46

And it was interesting because I

was kind of, we have um, the Mayo

561

: 00:25:50

Clinic, which I love, Rochester in

Minnesota, and we go there often

562

: 00:25:55

because those doctors are different.

563

: 00:25:57

They are kind of based on a

salary and it just seems like the

564

: 00:26:00

care is a little bit different.

565

: 00:26:02

But I ended up going to a teaching

hospital for my care, which I never

566

: 00:26:06

thought that I would, but it was really

interesting because my oncologist.

567

: 00:26:13

Told me, oh yeah, ice your hands and feet.

568

: 00:26:16

So you don't get neuropathy.

569

: 00:26:17

Do you know you go in there to get your

stupid chemo and no one's doing it.

570

: 00:26:21

No one's icing their hands

and feet because you can't

571

: 00:26:23

make any money off of ice.

572

: 00:26:25

So doctors don't even know, or won't

even stand by or there hasn't been a

573

: 00:26:28

study done because who's gonna study ice?

574

: 00:26:31

I don't have neuropathy and

neither does anyone that I know who

575

: 00:26:34

went through chemo and used ice.

576

: 00:26:36

Now you can't always, if it's a

cancer that they're concerned about.

577

: 00:26:40

I also did cold capping to save my

hair, and my doctor was supportive.

578

: 00:26:44

Where I went to a different doc.

579

: 00:26:46

I thought I was gonna use a different

doctor that was more of corporate

580

: 00:26:49

medicine and she was like, eh.

581

: 00:26:52

I mean, I don't know.

582

: 00:26:53

Why bother?

583

: 00:26:54

It's probably not gonna work.

584

: 00:26:56

And um, I just had such a different

experience that I did love that

585

: 00:27:01

teaching hospital, but it's, we have

to be such proponents of our own

586

: 00:27:07

health and it's hard when you're sick.

587

: 00:27:10

You just wanna find someone

and trust them, you know?

588

: 00:27:14

Speaker: Can I ask you

a couple of questions?

589

: 00:27:16

Do you mind?

590

: 00:27:16

Speaker 2: Yes.

591

: 00:27:17

Speaker: When you got diagnosed,

how'd that affect your family?

592

: 00:27:21

Speaker 2: Um.

593

: 00:27:24

Okay, so this is what I'm gonna say.

594

: 00:27:27

It all turned out to be

a huge blessing for me.

595

: 00:27:30

Kind of like I needed it, I needed it

in a weird way to realize, um, how I

596

: 00:27:38

want it to live a little bit different.

597

: 00:27:41

I think that

598

: 00:27:45

I feel like I am someone that is always

telling everyone I'm gonna be okay.

599

: 00:27:52

This was a time, especially like I think

about my son where I would break down

600

: 00:27:57

and like, I dunno if I'm gonna keep

my nipple, you know, he's like, what?

601

: 00:28:04

I don't wanna hear this,

but you know what I mean?

602

: 00:28:06

He is not even 30 and I've never,

I've always made everything

603

: 00:28:10

really nice for everybody and just

tried to keep everybody happy.

604

: 00:28:15

And it was the first time in

my life where I went, I was me.

605

: 00:28:21

I just, and I did surrender.

606

: 00:28:23

I did surrender to God.

607

: 00:28:25

It was, I've always had a strong

Christian, um, background.

608

: 00:28:30

But this was a moment where

it was, you're all alone.

609

: 00:28:36

You know, you're, you're, I know you've

got like support, but you're alone because

610

: 00:28:41

it's you and you're kind of facing death.

611

: 00:28:43

Like I have never really thought about it.

612

: 00:28:45

I stay so healthy 'cause I

never wanna have an issue.

613

: 00:28:49

I was like, blown away.

614

: 00:28:50

I don't have it in my family.

615

: 00:28:51

I don't, you know, I was like, what?

616

: 00:28:53

My parents are in their eighties.

617

: 00:28:55

I was just like dumbfounded

that I could get this.

618

: 00:29:00

Speaker: And what about your husband?

619

: 00:29:01

I mean, was was, was, was he stressed out?

620

: 00:29:04

I mean, was he scared?

621

: 00:29:05

Was your son, I mean,

how did they re respond?

622

: 00:29:09

I mean, were they?

623

: 00:29:10

Well,

624

: 00:29:10

Speaker 2: so, okay, so my daughter's a

doctor, and here's the interesting thing.

625

: 00:29:13

Her husband's mom passed away from

breast cancer shortly before he turned

626

: 00:29:20

16, so he was a little wigged out.

627

: 00:29:25

However, they were all like, mom,

you're a great example of going

628

: 00:29:31

in and getting your mammogram and

catching it early and even, um.

629

: 00:29:38

This doctor that I had was like, I think

you're gonna handle chemo really well.

630

: 00:29:44

I never got sick, like

I walked through it all.

631

: 00:29:48

I, I didn't get sick through chemo.

632

: 00:29:52

Speaker: It's amazing.

633

: 00:29:52

And now

634

: 00:29:53

Speaker 2: I'm not gonna say

I have a podcast on this.

635

: 00:29:55

It's called Saddle Up Live, where I just

talk about how to get through chemo.

636

: 00:30:00

I no caffeine, no alcohol, no sugar.

637

: 00:30:04

You know, I like really,

really took care of myself.

638

: 00:30:09

Speaker: Alkaline your body.

639

: 00:30:11

Speaker 2: Say that again.

640

: 00:30:12

Speaker: Alkaline your body.

641

: 00:30:13

Speaker 2: Yeah.

642

: 00:30:14

Speaker: So that the cancer

couldn't spread smart.

643

: 00:30:16

Speaker 2: Well, and it was cute

'cause I've always used, um, like

644

: 00:30:19

a functional assessment doctor and

I talked to her and she supported,

645

: 00:30:23

even though the doctors were like, we

probably got it all with the surgery.

646

: 00:30:28

This is how we treat this.

647

: 00:30:30

Her two type and, um.

648

: 00:30:34

My natural path or whatever

functional assessment doctor told me.

649

: 00:30:39

'cause my, one of my doctors had said,

oh, don't worry about what you're eating

650

: 00:30:43

right now, just get through chemo.

651

: 00:30:44

And so I started and I was

like eating gluten-free.

652

: 00:30:48

Bagels things I had never eaten.

653

: 00:30:49

'cause I'm like, wow, what

the hell I've got, you know?

654

: 00:30:51

And then a light bulb went on

and I went, what am I doing?

655

: 00:30:54

And what I, what was described to me

is that if you do have any cancer in

656

: 00:30:59

you, you want it to go eat the chemo.

657

: 00:31:01

And if you're feeding it sugar, it's

not gonna be hungry for the chemo.

658

: 00:31:04

So I really, like, I did, I kind of did

some intermittent fasting through it.

659

: 00:31:09

I exercised, I lifted weight

through the whole thing and I

660

: 00:31:12

had to start out with soup cans.

661

: 00:31:15

It was quite the journey.

662

: 00:31:17

And sometimes it's funny, mark, I

feel like I got off easy because

663

: 00:31:22

I have, and I could get teary.

664

: 00:31:23

I have a good friend who had this

the same time as, as, as I did, and

665

: 00:31:28

we thought she was gonna kind of be

following in my footsteps and she, it had

666

: 00:31:32

metastasized and she couldn't, you know,

she didn't get to have the treatment.

667

: 00:31:38

Because it was not going to

work, and so it was too far.

668

: 00:31:41

So, and she's, they still have

gotten so far with breast cancer.

669

: 00:31:46

Even at stage four.

670

: 00:31:48

A lot of women are living a long time.

671

: 00:31:52

So, I mean, that's the good news.

672

: 00:31:55

My husband.

673

: 00:31:55

Okay.

674

: 00:31:56

Here's the funny thing.

675

: 00:31:56

There were like other things going on

at the same time, of course, as this,

676

: 00:32:01

in my, in my marriage, which was hard.

677

: 00:32:04

And, um.

678

: 00:32:07

I, I will say this, I would get so mad

at him because I kind of didn't want

679

: 00:32:11

anyone to know, and that was part of

a, I'm a people pleaser and I want

680

: 00:32:17

everyone to think I'm a, you know, she's

got it all together and no one wants

681

: 00:32:21

to be the woman with breast cancer.

682

: 00:32:22

Right.

683

: 00:32:23

And he would go, like, he'd bring our

dog to the vet and he'd tell the vet

684

: 00:32:28

and everyone there that about what I was

going through and I could have killed him.

685

: 00:32:33

And then everywhere he went, he

would talk to people about my cancer.

686

: 00:32:37

And I'm like, I don't want

everyone to know, you know?

687

: 00:32:41

And he didn't realize that.

688

: 00:32:43

And so we'd handled it different and it's,

689

: 00:32:47

Speaker: he was having

his own little crisis.

690

: 00:32:49

Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.

691

: 00:32:49

And it's been such a change

because I have shifted.

692

: 00:32:53

Who I am.

693

: 00:32:54

I'm like, I'm not here to make you

happy, honey, I love you, but you gotta

694

: 00:32:58

make yourself, you know what I mean?

695

: 00:32:59

So this poor guy, we've been

married 34 years, he's awesome.

696

: 00:33:04

But this, so this guy now is learning

how to live with a new Lisa, but we,

697

: 00:33:10

you know, I stay open about it, that

he can't, like, he used to be able to

698

: 00:33:13

say, oh, I really love a clean floor.

699

: 00:33:15

And I'd go grab the mop and

start, you know what I mean?

700

: 00:33:17

Because that was just how it was.

701

: 00:33:19

Now I go, yeah, no.

702

: 00:33:21

Do you wanna mop the floor?

703

: 00:33:23

It's, it's just funny.

704

: 00:33:24

I've just learned so much.

705

: 00:33:26

I've done some NLP work.

706

: 00:33:27

I mean, I have gone deep.

707

: 00:33:29

I'm writing a book, so

708

: 00:33:32

Speaker: you good.

709

: 00:33:32

What an incredible woman you are.

710

: 00:33:34

Speaker 2: Oh, well you're sweet.

711

: 00:33:35

Thank you.

712

: 00:33:35

I do not mean to get off on that tangent.

713

: 00:33:37

Speaker: No.

714

: 00:33:37

The reason I, the reason I ask that I ask

this is because there's, when it comes

715

: 00:33:42

to dealing with substance use, these

behavioral health issues, it's really

716

: 00:33:47

no different from, from sort of the.

717

: 00:33:50

The mental health perspective.

718

: 00:33:51

I mean, listen, here's you

in the middle of this, right?

719

: 00:33:54

You're dealing an amazing

job dealing with it.

720

: 00:33:56

And your husband on the other

hand, who is sort of the, you know,

721

: 00:33:57

the, the patriarch of the family.

722

: 00:34:00

He's having a bit of a meltdown

to the point where he has to

723

: 00:34:01

discuss it with everybody because

he just needs a little support.

724

: 00:34:04

He wants some to tell him, tell him

it's, it's gonna be okay, and that

725

: 00:34:07

he, and that you are gonna be fine.

726

: 00:34:09

And so those are the kinds of, this

is what we deal with on a daily basis.

727

: 00:34:13

When a family calls us, it's,

it's as if your husband.

728

: 00:34:17

A version of your husband

calls us every day.

729

: 00:34:20

Multiple times.

730

: 00:34:21

Okay.

731

: 00:34:21

That's

732

: 00:34:22

Speaker 2: so, yeah.

733

: 00:34:22

The

734

: 00:34:22

Speaker: fact, the person in crisis,

and it's not the, it's not the patient.

735

: 00:34:26

It's the family.

736

: 00:34:28

Yeah.

737

: 00:34:28

That's in this, because the person

in the middle is like, I'm fine.

738

: 00:34:32

I got it.

739

: 00:34:33

Yeah.

740

: 00:34:33

You obviously were thinking rationally,

but when somebody's dealing with mental

741

: 00:34:36

illness, they're not thinking rationally.

742

: 00:34:38

They're thinking there's absolutely

nothing wrong with 'em, and

743

: 00:34:41

they don't need any treatment.

744

: 00:34:43

It's everybody else in the family,

the moms, the dads, the siblings,

745

: 00:34:47

brothers, sisters, grandparents who

are completely losing it because

746

: 00:34:51

they don't understand why their loved

one cannot see what they're saying

747

: 00:34:55

and why they cannot change things.

748

: 00:34:58

And it's because they don't understand

the dynamics of dealing with somebody

749

: 00:35:01

like this who is so sick that they,

they don't even know that they're sick.

750

: 00:35:06

That's how sick they are.

751

: 00:35:07

They can't look in the mirror.

752

: 00:35:08

And, and that is what we deal with.

753

: 00:35:11

So the reason that is

754

: 00:35:13

Speaker 2: Mark,

755

: 00:35:14

Speaker: but I I wanted you to

understand, we get people like your

756

: 00:35:18

husband calling every day, two, three

times a day saying, we have this family

757

: 00:35:22

member, they're really, really sick.

758

: 00:35:24

We don't know what to do 'cause

they won't do the chemo 'cause

759

: 00:35:27

they don't think they have cancer.

760

: 00:35:29

Speaker 2: Oh geez.

761

: 00:35:30

Okay.

762

: 00:35:30

So Mark, this is so, so interesting

and I, I kind of feel like a

763

: 00:35:35

little embarrassed and I, this

would be one of the, no, listen.

764

: 00:35:39

I don't think interestingly

enough, I don't know that I've

765

: 00:35:47

ever really sat back and thought,

how did this affect my family?

766

: 00:35:52

Now I knew that.

767

: 00:35:55

We, it was so, it is a little hard

because it's like 98% positive outcome.

768

: 00:35:59

You know what I mean?

769

: 00:36:00

It's not like, it wasn't really like

I was gonna die ever, but there was a

770

: 00:36:05

moment when I didn't know, and there was

a time, there was time when I didn't know.

771

: 00:36:10

And honestly, I do think it was

a time where I broke down and was

772

: 00:36:17

open with my family and didn't

try to cover up how I felt.

773

: 00:36:23

But they don't know everything.

774

: 00:36:24

You know, they, they don't

know Mama going out in the barn

775

: 00:36:28

and just crying on a hay bale.

776

: 00:36:32

I mean, that's where I would go because

there's, you find out you have it.

777

: 00:36:36

And then I thought it was huge because

they didn't tell me, they blew it up

778

: 00:36:41

on the, you know, I was like, oh my

gosh, this is gonna be the, this is it.

779

: 00:36:45

And so, and then you go back in

and then you start learning more

780

: 00:36:48

and then you have the surgery and

they're like, it looks like it's.

781

: 00:36:51

Teeny tiny and like, we got

it, but you gotta do the tests.

782

: 00:36:54

You know?

783

: 00:36:54

We don't know.

784

: 00:36:54

We don't know anything for, I

don't know how it's like takes

785

: 00:36:58

weeks, you know what I mean?

786

: 00:37:00

And you just sit and you

just sit in the not knowing.

787

: 00:37:03

And I think that was really hard

and very life changing for me.

788

: 00:37:11

And if you knew me, you would know.

789

: 00:37:13

I worry and I worry about health stuff.

790

: 00:37:17

Speaker: I mean, it's the,

it's the unknown and you know,

791

: 00:37:19

to a certain extent, right?

792

: 00:37:22

You took a leap of

faith with your doctors.

793

: 00:37:23

So when families hire

us, it's the same thing.

794

: 00:37:26

They take a little bit of a leap

of faith with us that we could

795

: 00:37:29

finally end this nightmare.

796

: 00:37:31

But they're trusting us not only

to do the legal work, but you

797

: 00:37:34

know, is the facility we're working

with, are they gonna do a good job?

798

: 00:37:37

Is the caseworker that we, that their

family hired to work with us, is that,

799

: 00:37:40

are those people gonna do a good job?

800

: 00:37:42

Right?

801

: 00:37:43

I mean, all of these things,

and it, it, it's all these.

802

: 00:37:46

Pieces that work together, right?

803

: 00:37:47

I mean, you had somebody telling you

about nutrition and there's the doctor

804

: 00:37:50

telling you to do the eye therapy

and there's the, the, the oncologist.

805

: 00:37:53

So you've got all these people around

you and it really requires all of them

806

: 00:37:57

to do the, to do the best job they can.

807

: 00:38:00

But at some point, the family has

to take a little bit of a leap of

808

: 00:38:02

faith in saying, you know what?

809

: 00:38:04

I'm gonna trust, I'm gonna trust Mark

and his team to do the right thing

810

: 00:38:08

and help us to save our loved one.

811

: 00:38:10

Because there's no other option here.

812

: 00:38:12

'cause otherwise we're going to

be making funeral arrangements.

813

: 00:38:15

Speaker 2: Right.

814

: 00:38:15

Okay.

815

: 00:38:16

Speaker: To be blunt about it.

816

: 00:38:17

But, but, but I've had that call.

817

: 00:38:20

I had a call just lot two weeks ago.

818

: 00:38:22

I found out a good friend of mine who

had an adult child, 32 years of age.

819

: 00:38:25

She was in treatment, never

called to discuss it with me.

820

: 00:38:28

He put her in treatment for

30 days, which I would've told

821

: 00:38:30

him was not nearly enough time.

822

: 00:38:32

On day 31, she walked out.

823

: 00:38:33

On day 32, she was dead.

824

: 00:38:36

And I never know, he never called me.

825

: 00:38:38

If, if he had called me, I would've

said, listen, it's not long enough.

826

: 00:38:42

She needs a year.

827

: 00:38:44

And I tell families, this is

a year long journey with us.

828

: 00:38:46

Speaker 2: Yeah.

829

: 00:38:47

Right.

830

: 00:38:47

When

831

: 00:38:47

Speaker: I say us, I

don't mean my law firm.

832

: 00:38:49

Literally.

833

: 00:38:50

I mean, it's a year long journey to

get somebody in recovery and keep

834

: 00:38:54

them there long enough so they can

finally experience the miracle of

835

: 00:38:57

recovery for the rest of their life.

836

: 00:38:58

Yeah, because I wanna get

this right the first time, but

837

: 00:39:01

so, so it's like you, right?

838

: 00:39:03

I mean, you, you are in remission.

839

: 00:39:06

It wouldn't take probably

that much for it to come back.

840

: 00:39:08

'cause I know, I know friends

who've gone through cancer and I

841

: 00:39:11

just lost an aunt who had cancer.

842

: 00:39:12

If it, if you can get it in remission,

if you don't keep it in remission, it

843

: 00:39:15

comes back and it comes roaring back.

844

: 00:39:19

Yep.

845

: 00:39:19

And so it's the same type of dynamics.

846

: 00:39:22

Speaker 2: Yep.

847

: 00:39:22

And um, as I'm, as I'm, as I'm

listening to you, I'm thinking

848

: 00:39:27

about how I trusted that oncologist.

849

: 00:39:35

I need it to, like I let go.

850

: 00:39:38

You get to, I mean,

you know in your heart.

851

: 00:39:40

So if you can be that for people who are

going through something hard like this,

852

: 00:39:46

and I like how you made this parallel

to help me understand the idea of it.

853

: 00:39:53

I mean, I have someone that I want to

call you right away to get some help.

854

: 00:39:58

Um.

855

: 00:39:59

Because there is a point where you

have to have someone you can trust, and

856

: 00:40:03

when you trust them, you believe 'em.

857

: 00:40:05

And by the way, I'm cured.

858

: 00:40:07

I'm not even in remission.

859

: 00:40:08

That's what they tell me.

860

: 00:40:11

So I have to say that.

861

: 00:40:13

Um, yeah.

862

: 00:40:15

So anyway, I'm just looking at the time.

863

: 00:40:17

I told you 25 minutes and we're at 40.

864

: 00:40:20

Speaker: It's okay.

865

: 00:40:21

I I, I'm happy to chat with you.

866

: 00:40:22

Speaker 2: Well, I am so

glad, so glad that we did.

867

: 00:40:26

And Mark, I'm gonna have.

868

: 00:40:28

Your information in my show notes.

869

: 00:40:30

How can like people get ahold

of you right away if they have

870

: 00:40:35

someone no matter where they are?

871

: 00:40:38

Speaker: So what do you want?

872

: 00:40:38

Main phone number to the

office, which I'll give you.

873

: 00:40:40

Speaker 2: Yeah.

874

: 00:40:41

Uh,

875

: 00:40:41

Speaker: it's 5 6 1 4 1 9 6 0 9 5.

876

: 00:40:47

That's the main number to the office.

877

: 00:40:49

And um, the main website is mental

health addiction law firm.com.

878

: 00:40:55

That's Mental health addiction law firm.

879

: 00:40:59

Or if they just simply Google me,

I'm all over social media, right?

880

: 00:41:03

I so every day, pretty much every

day I put out a video and I'm, I,

881

: 00:41:07

I make 'em on my phone sometimes.

882

: 00:41:09

I'd shoot 'em right after

I get outta the gym.

883

: 00:41:10

They're not scripted.

884

: 00:41:11

It's just a thought I have.

885

: 00:41:12

And I, and I, I share real life,

real world information for people

886

: 00:41:18

so they can decide if they even

wanna pick up the phone and call us.

887

: 00:41:20

So there's literally probably, at

this point, thousands of hours of, of

888

: 00:41:24

video content out there on just about

every subject you could think of.

889

: 00:41:27

When it comes to behavioral health issues

in Florida law and how we help people,

890

: 00:41:31

and it's there for free and, and really

it's, it's been a, a real mission of mine

891

: 00:41:36

to give people the information they know

they need, not the, the garbage they read

892

: 00:41:40

on Google or some, some blog posts that

somebody who knows nothing about this

893

: 00:41:43

stuff is talking about real world cases.

894

: 00:41:46

Real world information from somebody

who's been doing this for a long time

895

: 00:41:50

and spoken to thousands of families.

896

: 00:41:51

And it's for free.

897

: 00:41:52

You can have it all seriously.

898

: 00:41:54

It's just there.

899

: 00:41:55

Speaker 2: Find the information that's

900

: 00:41:57

Speaker: free.

901

: 00:41:57

Three books you can, which you can

download on both of my websites.

902

: 00:42:01

You can call my team and speak to

Brittany or Nate who are, who are,

903

: 00:42:04

are part of our intake department

and you can call 'em for free.

904

: 00:42:07

So, um,

905

: 00:42:09

Speaker 2: I do have a question.

906

: 00:42:11

Speaker: Yes.

907

: 00:42:11

How

908

: 00:42:11

Speaker 2: expensive does

this get for families?

909

: 00:42:15

Speaker: Okay, so there's the,

there's the legal component.

910

: 00:42:17

And I will tell you that actually out of,

out, out of all of this, the hiring us is

911

: 00:42:21

probably the cheapest part of the process.

912

: 00:42:23

But if you don't, if you don't, unless you

can get your loved one to go voluntarily

913

: 00:42:26

and stay voluntarily, and by the time

you get to us, that's not happening.

914

: 00:42:31

The legal component, which is

the, is the critical thing.

915

: 00:42:33

The thing started is

the cheapest part of it.

916

: 00:42:35

I would say average fees, I mean

legal fees, depending on the case.

917

: 00:42:40

Somewhere in the 10 to $20,000 range,

but we're typically on the case

918

: 00:42:44

anywhere from three months to a year.

919

: 00:42:46

And that may cover a good bulk of that.

920

: 00:42:49

Um, good treatment.

921

: 00:42:51

Um, really good treatment, I would say

is in the 50 to $30,000 a month range.

922

: 00:42:56

It's not cheap.

923

: 00:42:57

Uh, you know, it isn't, you know,

which is why having health insurance

924

: 00:43:00

is really, really important, um, for

the resources to pay for treatment.

925

: 00:43:05

Now, there are county facilities.

926

: 00:43:07

And, and I'm a big fan of 'em.

927

: 00:43:09

But the problem is they don't

always have a bed available.

928

: 00:43:11

Yeah.

929

: 00:43:11

'cause everybody wants treatment

and there's just only so many beds.

930

: 00:43:15

Whereas if you have the

ability to pay for treatment or

931

: 00:43:18

insurance can cover it, it helps.

932

: 00:43:20

It helps things.

933

: 00:43:22

Now I think the sad, I think the sad

part of all of this, it is that we don't

934

: 00:43:27

make treatment available for everybody.

935

: 00:43:30

And I've been pretty vocal about that too.

936

: 00:43:31

I think it's, I think in this country

and I, you know, I'm proud to say I,

937

: 00:43:35

you know, I've been a citizen now for.

938

: 00:43:37

About 10 years.

939

: 00:43:38

I've lived in the US for 37 years.

940

: 00:43:39

I just came back from United Kingdom,

my first trip back in 15 years to

941

: 00:43:43

say goodbye to a family member.

942

: 00:43:45

But I think, I think frankly

it's shameful that we don't make

943

: 00:43:47

treatment available to everybody.

944

: 00:43:48

And not just treatment,

but world class treatment.

945

: 00:43:50

'cause we've got the resources here.

946

: 00:43:51

But yeah, you know, I'm not

gonna get on a political soapbox

947

: 00:43:54

here on your podcast, but.

948

: 00:43:56

The simple fact is, is

you don't, we'll talk

949

: 00:43:58

Speaker 2: offline, mark for

950

: 00:44:00

Speaker: health insurance.

951

: 00:44:00

It's a problem.

952

: 00:44:01

It's not an, it's not an impossibility,

but it doesn't help things.

953

: 00:44:04

Speaker 2: Right.

954

: 00:44:05

Speaker: You know, and look,

sometimes if you're a veteran,

955

: 00:44:07

you have veterans insurance.

956

: 00:44:08

Um, I've got, I've got a

really great contact that does

957

: 00:44:11

nothing but place veterans.

958

: 00:44:12

And you know, Nate, my sales

manager, he's a veteran Lewis,

959

: 00:44:15

who is one of my associates and a

longtime friend, also a veteran.

960

: 00:44:19

So we, we we're passionate

about helping veterans and there

961

: 00:44:21

are options for those folks.

962

: 00:44:22

And I've gotta, you know.

963

: 00:44:24

Just like resources.

964

: 00:44:25

You can have 'em for free.

965

: 00:44:26

You only gotta pay me if you hire

me to do legal work, but resources

966

: 00:44:29

I give them to you for free.

967

: 00:44:30

Speaker 2: Right.

968

: 00:44:31

I love that.

969

: 00:44:31

I love that.

970

: 00:44:32

Okay, listeners.

971

: 00:44:33

If you need this, just go

find your free resources.

972

: 00:44:36

I always told everyone I'm

doing divorce different, get

973

: 00:44:39

all the information you can.

974

: 00:44:40

There's so much free information out

there and I have it on my website too.

975

: 00:44:44

But get all the information you can.

976

: 00:44:46

And then Mark, I would totally

call you if I needed help.

977

: 00:44:50

Thank you.

978

: 00:44:50

Um, after talking to you.

979

: 00:44:51

So I just feel like we're gonna talk

again and, um, I'm so glad to have made

980

: 00:44:57

this connection, so thank you so much.

981

: 00:45:00

Thank you for being here.

982

: 00:45:01

It was just such a pleasure.