End the Cycle: Healing After Abuse, Judgment & Perfectionism with Andi Bull | Faith and Healing
Healing after abuse, faith and healing, and ending generational cycles—this powerful conversation with author Andi Bull offers tools to stop perfectionism, release judgment, and embrace humble apologies that heal relationships. In this memoir-style episode, we explore how to end the cycle, why God’s love—not performance—defines identity, and practical ways to move from victim to survivor to overcomer. Throughout, we return to healing after abuse as a core theme, connecting it to anxiety, people-pleasing, and family patterns. If you’re ready for healing after abuse (or any hidden wound), this episode gives you language, lenses, and next steps. You’ll hear stories on motherhood, marriage, apology, and discernment that make healing after abuse actionable in daily life.
Timestamps:
(00:00) Introduction to ending the cycle: perfectionism, people-pleasing, and identity
(04:12) Guest shares insights on motherhood, adoption, and unconditional love in practice
(08:45) Humble apologies in marriage: how humility breaks defensiveness
(12:30) Performance vs. beloved identity: stopping the “earn love” lie
(16:05) Morning anxiety, gratitude, and inviting Jesus into honest emotions
(19:42) Seeing as God sees: non-judgment, modeling, and discerning “not from you”
(24:18) Suffering and growth: the barbed-wire tree and integrating grief
(28:10) From victim → survivor → overcomer: refusing to let pain define you
(31:40) Tools to end gossip and judgment while keeping relationships
(35:05) Parenting & grandparenting stories: unconditional love in the checkout line
(38:20) Practical takeaways and next steps to end generational patterns
Key Takeaways:
- Identity first: You are loved before you perform; humility dismantles defensiveness.
- End the cycle: Awareness + new responses (apology, curiosity, modeling) rewrite family patterns.
- Judgment → discernment: Ask for God’s eyes and heart; sometimes the word is “not from you.”
- Suffering integrates: We don’t “shrink” pain; we grow around it and become stronger.
- Move stages: Acknowledge victimhood, heal as a survivor, live as an overcomer who helps others.
Guest Bio:
Guest Bio:
For over twenty-five years, Andi has dedicated herself to the study of God’s word, graduating from the King’s University with her Master’s in 2003.
As she read the Bible through the eyes of a survivor of traumatic childhood abuse, she saw how God passionately seeks the lost, gently restores the broken, and tenderly heals broken hearts.
Andi became inspired to advocate for emotional well-being, not only for herself but also for the women she is privileged to mentor one-on-one and those she speaks to at conferences. The lessons and insights she gained are in her book, When Your Protectors Didn’t: Healing from a Past of Broken Pieces.
Raised in South Africa as a child, she now resides in sunny Southern California with her husband, daughter, and pups. She loves her family, friends, pups, and coffee—lots and lots of coffee!
Resource Links:
- Get Andi Bull’s book: When Your Protectors Didn’t Protect https://a.co/d/5naO43I
- Learn more at lesakoski.com
- Listen to Part 1 of the conversation — https://player.captivate.fm/episode/e87157ca-599f-4155-9b7e-3d577d1ee81d/
Tags/Keywords:
healing after abuse, faith and healing, end the cycle, perfectionism, people pleasing, humble apology, nonjudgment, Christian women, women over 40 podcast, survivor to overcomer, generational healing, identity in God, memoir podcast, Andy Bull, When Your Protectors Didn’t Protect
Transcript
Hey friends.
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:Welcome back to the second part of my
series with author Andy Bull who wrote,
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:when Your Protectors Didn't, if you did
not hear last Tuesday's episode, go back.
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:It is so good, and we are going deep.
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:Today we're talking about what it's
like to grow up under criticism, how
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:perfectionism and people pleasing
becomes survival tools and how love can
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:feel like something you have to earn.
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:Instead of something you already are.
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:So just trust me.
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:There are moments that really hit
me hard, and just because I haven't
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:faced abuse the way Andy has, I still
saw myself in her stories really
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:more times than I ever expected.
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:So join us.
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:Here's the conversation.
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:It's a great one.
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:Okay.
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:Speaker 2: Well, and I wanna say one other
thing too is that you can end the cycle.
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:Yeah.
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:And, and I have to say, this
is interesting, and I'm not
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:even speaking from abuse.
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:I'm saying this could all be in
my head that I just had to be,
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:perform and be perfect for my
parents and, and for everyone.
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:I just had the, I mean,
oh, that's real fun.
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:I didn't have friends because
I was over look like it.
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:Right.
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:Was pretending they didn't see the,
the things that weren't perfect.
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:But I do remember, I mean, when,
when I became a mother, oh,
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:that was God showed me the love.
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:Oh, I love, and then we ended up adopting.
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:I mean, I just Wow.
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:Loved being a mom.
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:And I loved on those kiddos and
I did like, I worried and I, um,
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:I didn't want them to ever get
hurt and I loved them fiercely.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:I mean, they knew they were loved
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:Speaker 3: hard.
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:Yeah.
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:Speaker 2: Yes.
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:Yes.
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:And I, it, this is was
another awakening for me.
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:Where this was something I was not
aware, I was not familiar with.
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:Yeah.
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:When my children would come home and
maybe they had to give a speech at
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:school or something, now I would've
come home and sang my praises.
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:I wouldn't have really believed it,
but I would've been like, oh yeah.
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:I nailed it.
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:I didn't, you know, I would've
never told them if I was hurting or
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:if I had done bad, or if I wasn't,
someone didn't like me and my kiddos
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:would come home and go, oh my gosh.
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:You know, I fell on my face before I
went off and, you know, and I would be
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:like sitting there with my mouth open.
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:Yeah.
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:And, and not familiar
with what that felt like.
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:And then I remember just being like,
I mean, Jesus is just there with you,
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:even if I wasn't quite there yet.
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:Speaker 4: Yeah.
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:Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
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:And he gave me a little
glimpse of they're okay.
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:Yes.
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:They don't feel like you do.
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:Speaker 3: Yes.
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:That amazing.
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:Isn't it amazing?
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:You look at somebody and you think.
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:Wait, you're not feeling
what I'm feeling right now?
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:You're not verified.
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:I, I, I could so relate to that.
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:Um, I, and what my moment with that
was Lisa was with my husband, um, Ted.
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:And he is this just, oh my gosh, this
guy, he is just from the Lord for me.
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:And I remember when we got married
and he would mess something up,
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:you know, as you do in marriage.
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:Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
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:Speaker 3: When he messed
something up, his apologies.
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:They were so quick.
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:They were so heartfelt.
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:They were so humble.
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:I mean, oh, honey man,
I, man, I'm sorry babe.
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:I did not know how to apologize because
I grew up with so much criticism that I
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:grew up always having to defend myself.
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:And I, I can't be wrong.
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:I can't be, because that interrupts
that thing you were just talking
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:about of performing perfectly.
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:Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
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:And
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:Speaker 3: then that means that
there's something wrong with me.
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:And at this core, that's what that
is about with performance, is that
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:there's something wrong with me.
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:And so I need to convince everybody around
me that I am okay and that I'm doing well
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:because there's so many critical voices
in my head that I have to, uh, counteract
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:through this performance activity.
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:And breaking the cycle of that
was watching my husband's apology.
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:Hmm.
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:Speaker 5: And
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:Speaker 3: I thought, okay, it's humility
that's gonna break the back of that.
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:Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
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:And
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:Speaker 3: so.
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:Um, you know, he would, he would come
up to me and he would, you know, he
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:would say something that had hurt
him and I'd want to be defensive and
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:sort of, you know, explain my case.
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:And, and I learned to just humble
myself and say, I don't see what you're
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:seeing, but can you please help me
to see it so that I can own my part?
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:I didn't wanna ever own anything
because then it meant I was the
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:terrible person I already believe.
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:Right.
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:I was Does that make sense?
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:Speaker 2: Yes.
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:Which you weren't the terrible
per, you know what I mean?
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:But Yeah.
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:Speaker 3: Yeah.
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:And I had this lie.
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:I believed that I was this terrible
person and basically how dare I, um,
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:make a noise and cause any kind of fuss.
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:Speaker 2: And you talk about
that in your book as well.
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:You have a really good story about that.
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:Speaker 3: Yeah.
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:So I think that was my moment of man laugh
at myself, learning to laugh at myself
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:and just, you know, embrace all of the
silly, because that's really who I am.
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:And that the silly isn't bad.
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:And when we do mess up and when we
do make mistakes, take them head on.
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:Yeah.
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:And say, sorry, give a good apology.
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:That knocked that out of me.
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:Speaker 2: Well, and isn't it
interesting this, the learning,
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:like even though we have such Yeah.
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:Strong relationships
with our savior, right.
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:We still struggle.
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:I still struggle every day, Andy.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:I mean, you know what I mean?
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:And so.
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:It's interesting.
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:I wanna go back and talk about how we can
work to not judge, are there any tools?
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:Mm-hmm.
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:Let's go back to that.
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:But I wanna tell you about something
that happened to me this morning.
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:And this is what's so funny.
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:I have been coached epi.
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:I am a coach.
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:I, you know, I'm an attorney
and a coach because I, I just
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:wanna learn and help people.
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:And so, like, I know like how
you switch your mindset, right?
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:Mm-hmm.
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:Like I have all these tools now
after the diagnosis, I realize, well,
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:number one, I gotta surrender to God.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:But I still fall prey and this, and
it's often in the morning, I wake
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:up and there's a feeling right here
in my stomach and it's not good.
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:It's sad.
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:And so today I was like,
okay, I'm gonna use my tools.
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:And I went, okay, I
better jump to gratitude.
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:And I started doing gratitude and
I went, whoa, I have learned that
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:I am supposed to look at this.
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:Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
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:Speaker 2: And it, it's.
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:Many mornings that I feel this way.
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:So I sat and I thought, okay,
what is this that I feel like,
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:where's this sadness coming from?
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:And I'm like, I don't know.
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:You know, I was kind of
trying to push it away.
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:And I go, okay, wait a minute.
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:What have I learned?
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:And I just grab Jesus' hand.
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:I'm like, okay, you come with me.
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:Yeah, you come with me.
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:Let's take a look at this.
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:Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
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:Speaker 2: Let's see what this is.
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:And what I realized is that just like
we began this conversation talking about
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:that son who stayed and did all the work.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
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:Speaker 2: So I wake up in the morning
and I look back to the day before.
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:I'm not even really, it's not even
really, it's just happening kind of.
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:Right.
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:Right.
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:And I'm, and I'm judging that as wrong.
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:I'm looking at, well.
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:I should have done this and I
should have put more time into this.
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:And I, and, and that's
like just ingrained in me.
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:Yeah.
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:And so I felt like Jesus was
saying, okay, I want, I want you
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:to see you sat down and talked to
two women and you brought up God.
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:Yeah.
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:I didn't go into great detail, but
we talked a little bit about it.
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:You know what I mean?
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:And he like, loves all those little
things that we don't even get.
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:Yes.
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:A cup of water sat there with that.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:And I was like, I was actually doing
what I had learned with Jesus by my side.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:And then once I did that, then
I could look at my gratitude.
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:Yeah.
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:So I had to feel that I had
to sit with it and feel it.
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:Yes.
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:Yeah.
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:Um, and I'm hoping that.
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:Through practice.
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:Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
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:Speaker 2: You know, the next morning that
I wake up and feel like that I can learn
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:and remember, but you know, sometimes I
won't and I'll wake up and I'll be crabby.
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:Yeah.
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:I don't,
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:Speaker 3: um, I think it's the
core of love that God grows in us.
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:The more it's, you think
about your child as an infant.
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:Okay, now picture holding that child right
now, see your face looking at your child.
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:Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
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:Speaker 3: Can you see
the tears and the love?
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:And, and she's lying there.
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:In fact, she's helpless.
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:She cannot feed herself.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:She cannot change herself.
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:She cannot do one thing.
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:But all you wanna do is
you're on staring duty.
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:Right?
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:You, you just wanna look at her
and love her, and you want her
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:to know you're so cherished.
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:You're so cherished.
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:There's nothing that you have to do.
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:Yes, there's nothing you need to do.
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:Speaker 2: Yes,
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:Speaker 3: anything that we do
together is fun and gravy, but
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:really it's just you that I want to
sit and admire and love right now.
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:How could God be any, right?
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:He says, you being evil know
how to give, give, give good
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:gifts to your children, right?
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:Speaker 2: Yeah.
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:Speaker 3: We look at the father spirit.
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:How much more will he give you?
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:The Holy Spirit, he's, he's
waking up every morning when
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:you wake up every morning.
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:You're already being stared
at Lisa by following.
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:Yeah.
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:Speaker 2: Oh, I love that.
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:And Andy, that's what it felt like.
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:And it's so interesting that you bring up,
a good friend of mine taught me something.
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:'cause I'm like, I can't hear God.
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:I mean, I do think I heard him say,
write the book, like very, like, I'm
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:like, okay, I, and you're gonna do it.
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:It's gonna be great.
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:But she taught me, she said, think about
a time when you really felt love and you
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:know, you know that overwhelming love.
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:And then she told me, think
about where you saw God there.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:And then she has me
write a letter, you know?
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:Mm-hmm.
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:You ask the question then Dear Lisa,
I'm like, oh, it's so powerful.
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:Yes.
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:But my, my point is it's always a child.
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:It's always when one of my kids
was born and I'm looking at them.
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:So when you just said that,
I'm like, oh, the chills.
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:Because that is what it's like.
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:And, and you can feel that
even if you're not a mama.
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:You know, you can feel that as an aunt,
you can, I can feel that over a baby deer.
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:I'm trying to say Absolutely.
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:Or, or my dog
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:Speaker 3: on a date.
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:Yes.
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:You know, you're so, they could
mess on the floor and you're
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:like, oh, but you're cute.
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:Oh,
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:Speaker 2: oh, I have a good straight.
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:Well, and then grandchildren,
I got three of 'em.
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:Wow.
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:And there's a, so my daughter-in-law
is a labor and delivery nurse,
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:and they live really close.
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:So when she works, my son's always like,
can you rock June the youngest one?
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:I'm like, please.
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:And I'm just like, filled with tears.
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:I'm like, this is the best.
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:I mean, it's, yeah, it's the best.
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:But I have this funny story and it
was, I was telling it to someone and
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:he's like, I don't believe that there
is such a thing as unconditional
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:love, except maybe from our father.
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:And, and I said, well, I feel
like my grandma gave it to me,
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:and I don't think she was perfect.
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:Right.
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:Speaker 5: Yeah.
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:Speaker 2: So then I told him a story.
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:About my, my grandson Oliver.
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:He's so darn cute.
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:And I had him, and I remember
how I was like, perfect,
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:Lisa, perfect little children.
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:Everybody behaved,
nobody blow up, you know?
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:They, and they were really good.
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:And then Oliver, I take him to the
store and he is cute as a button
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:uhhuh, but he is got his finger up
his nose and he's screaming in the
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:second line and he wants something.
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:And I, Andy, it was such
a different feeling.
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:I looked at and there were like tons
of people and I, I said, Oliver.
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:I don't even care.
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:I just love you.
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:And the lady behind me started laughing
'cause I'm like, I honestly shut that.
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:You just go ahead.
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:I don't care.
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:You're still kicking me.
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:Yes.
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:That's it.
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:Speaker 3: That's it.
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:And I think what happens to us when we're
young and we hear all that criticism
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:is that this critical nature within us,
it's doing its best to remind us how not
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:to be on a daily basis to protect us.
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:Speaker 5: Yeah.
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:Right.
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:Speaker 3: This inner critic
just wants to protect us.
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:Right.
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:Uh, okay.
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:You got, you got in trouble or you know,
you got, you know, in trouble for that.
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:We'll just use the words in trouble.
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:Speaker 2: Yeah.
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:Or I would say felt unloved.
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:That's what I would say.
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:Felt unloved.
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:Yeah.
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:Speaker 3: Right.
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:Because you didn't do such and such.
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:Well today you're gonna
do such and such and.
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:If we don't do it and we get in trouble,
we begin to learn to berate ourselves.
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:Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
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:Speaker 3: You see, I told
you stupid, if you did that,
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:you are gonna get in trouble.
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:So just what you know, all
these negative thoughts.
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:So now we've got them externally, and now
we have them internally from this coping
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:mess mechanism, this unhealthy coping
mechanism that we learned and developed
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:as children to survive for heaven's sake.
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:And one of the scriptures that
I is so meaningful to me is,
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:um, my sheep hear my voice.
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:He also goes on later to say they will
not follow the voice of a stranger.
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:So he's telling us,
you will hear my voice.
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:Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
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:Speaker 3: So you, he says,
do not fear little flock.
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:It is my father's good pleasure
to give you the kingdom.
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:Don't be afraid.
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:Little flock.
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:He knows we're these
helpless little sheep.
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:We can't survive without the
air he gives us the water in
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:the tap, the food he provides.
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:We just can't survive.
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:We're really helpless and yet so
powerful, right At the same time.
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:And he comes into those places where
we're afraid and where we are doubting
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:that we're loved or that we are hearing
his voice or that we're doing it right.
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:And he assures us, don't worry, I got you.
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:If you are going off
course, I'll come get you.
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:Yes.
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:Freedom.
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:You have freedom to live your life.
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:You freedom to make a mistake if you're.
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:You know, I, we call it our family
acting ugly Act in the fool.
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:If you're out there acting ugly,
he may not stop me in the moment,
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:but later he'll say, Hey, you know,
next time, maybe you could have
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:handled that a little different.
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:Yeah, so much love, so much grace.
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:Don't be afraid.
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:Little flock.
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:Go live your life.
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:You fall in a ditch,
ugh, and it gets you out.
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:You fall in the same ditch.
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:I'll get you out.
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:We'll get this.
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:You'll learn.
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:Don't worry.
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:It's that nature.
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:Speaker 2: He is, he is always there.
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:And it's interesting as you're,
as you're talking about this, I'm
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:thinking through my life and my walk
and you know, in my, I, I've always
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:been connected to him, like I've said.
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:Yeah.
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:But not in the same way that I am now.
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:But there, even though I was a
people pleaser and even though I did
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:a lot of things to please people,
there were some things I could not
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:Speaker 5: do
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:Speaker 2: Right.
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:That were crazy.
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:Right.
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:I couldn't send my kid
to a certain school.
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:I mean, it was like, and
everyone's like, why don't you?
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:Or you know, I homeschool
for a little while.
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:Everyone's like, you're, you
know, that thought that was crazy.
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:My daughter says, no one
should be homeschooled by me
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:in all love.
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:And
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:Speaker 3: Lisa, when I was holding
Zoe in my arms as she, when she
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:was a baby one day, uh, the Lord
spoke to me outta the blue he said.
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:When you send Zoe to school,
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:yes, he knew.
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:And I tell you, you just want to,
you know, you wanna prepare the
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:path for your child instead of
preparing your child for the path.
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:Yes.
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:You know, and you wanna just
bulldoze everything out of the way.
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:And they will not be hurt on my
watch with the things that I endured.
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:Even if they weren't
these traumatic things.
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:They're just not gonna, you know, they're
not gonna go through what I went through.
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:But man, like you said before, of
your kids, they just don't struggle
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:with the things the way that we do.
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:Because we were this, we chose.
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:To step up and to fill that void
and to say no to things that we
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:had experienced that we didn't
wanna pass on to their kids.
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:But I always tell Zoe she has a therapy
fund and if she wants to use it, go ahead.
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:You know, I'm sure you got some flies
on your wind windshield from me, so
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:if you need them, I absolutely know.
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:Speaker 2: I'm like, open too.
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:I'm like, yeah, I know.
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:Speaker 3: Go
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:Speaker 2: for it honey.
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:Just go talk to some.
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:Well, and I have had conversations.
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:My son is a lot like me.
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:Oh.
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:And I'll be, you know, I'll have
really deep conversations with
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:him now about that, which is
really, really good and helpful.
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:But I love how you talk about
that, because God does have us.
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:Yes.
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:And here's the thing, through,
through the hearts, like mm-hmm.
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:If I wouldn't have gone through what
I went through recently with the,
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:the breast cancer scare, I would
never be as healthy as I am now.
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:Right.
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:I, you know, I forget that I
lived in that hot, hot, you know,
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:like scared fight or flight.
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:I don't live there anymore.
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:Oh, that's funny.
425
:Like, praise God.
426
:Like, and I wouldn't be here Right.
427
:If I wouldn't have gone through that hard.
428
:So he, and it was funny as I sat through
that, I knew I was gonna be okay.
429
:Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
430
:Speaker 2: And, um,
431
:and I knew that I needed it.
432
:Speaker 4: Yeah.
433
:Speaker 2: And even, you know, it's just
so, so, and I'm still learning from it.
434
:Speaker 3: Yeah.
435
:Isn't it amazing?
436
:It is amazing.
437
:It's remarkable.
438
:I just taught at, um, I just got back
from teaching at a conference about
439
:suffering and no, nobody wants to talk
about suffering, as you know, and I
440
:didn't used to wanna talk about suffering.
441
:Speaker 4: Yeah.
442
:Speaker 3: But, um, I do talk
about it in my book, in the one
443
:story about the tree and, um.
444
:How I found that tree at the
edge of my sister's property.
445
:And it was this big oak
tree and this barbed wire.
446
:It had fallen onto this ancient
barbed bar fence year before.
447
:And, and it had incorporated
the barbed wire into itself.
448
:Speaker 5: Yeah.
449
:Speaker 3: And people tell us that
grief and suffering will shrink
450
:over time or get better over time.
451
:And personally, I could cry in a heartbeat
over something that wounded my daughter.
452
:Or wounded.
453
:Yeah.
454
:You know what I mean?
455
:Um, it can still feel as big and as fresh.
456
:So I don't think it shrinks over time.
457
:I don't buy that.
458
:But what I believe is that we grow
in spite of it, like that tree.
459
:Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
460
:Speaker 3: The tree had this barbed
wire running through it and it.
461
:It grew in spite of it.
462
:And now that barbed wire was part of
its story, but the story the barbed wire
463
:told is a story of the tree overcoming.
464
:Amen.
465
:So with your breast cancer, it's this
barbed wire through many years of your
466
:journey, and we'll continue to be.
467
:Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
468
:Speaker 3: But you overcame and that is
a powerful story that you get and you get
469
:to share with Jesus that nobody else has.
470
:Speaker 2: Yes.
471
:And you know,
472
:Speaker 3: and that's empowering.
473
:Speaker 2: It is.
474
:And what's so interesting was I
had, I was, it was weird how it
475
:affected me because I didn't wanna
be in a cancer support group.
476
:I, I didn't, I I was like, I
didn't want it to define me.
477
:Yeah.
478
:Right.
479
:And it's not,
480
:Speaker 3: it doesn't,
it doesn't define me.
481
:No.
482
:And I always tell people there's,
there's a victim and survivor, right?
483
:Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
484
:And
485
:Speaker 3: I always tell people,
victim, something legitimately
486
:happened to you that was not
okay, and let's sit with that.
487
:Speaker 2: Yeah.
488
:And let's
489
:Speaker 3: talk about
that and let's heal that.
490
:Survivor is somebody
who does those things.
491
:Victim acknowledges.
492
:What was done to me was not of
God, not the father's heart.
493
:Right.
494
:Survivor is somebody who says,
I'm not going to let that.
495
:Define my actions or my life.
496
:I am not going to, um, we talk
about my, the story about my
497
:niece, it's, it's hilarious.
498
:She learned with her tantrums.
499
:She had a three part tantrum.
500
:She would, she would, she would throw her
arms in the air, like almost like Will to
501
:fall on the cover of Platoon, you know,
502
:and then she would drop to her knees
and then she would fall on her face
503
:and then everybody would run to her
and she would get all this attention.
504
:So she never learned
unlearned that behavior.
505
:She just carried that
506
:Speaker 2: through.
507
:Yeah.
508
:Speaker 3: And.
509
:So it, it didn't matter, positive
or negative reinforcement, she
510
:just carried that behavior through.
511
:So the first time she felt it, there
was a legitimate offense, right?
512
:But then it just became her go-to
behavior for every, everything that when
513
:she didn't get her way or if she was
hurt, it didn't matter across the board.
514
:And one day, um, my daughter had
been kind of like witnessing this
515
:display and it was almost like she
had a little crayon pad, note yourself
516
:next time I don't get my way.
517
:And so, so she, she tried it on
me and I remember I was scar my
518
:laundry basket down the hallway.
519
:And, and she just said to me, you
know, like, mommy, can I have a cookie?
520
:And I, no baby, you know, you know
you can't have a treat right now.
521
:I said, had a lot of treats today.
522
:So she did it like on,
it was very impressive.
523
:You know, all three parts.
524
:Lisa, she didn't miss one.
525
:Ah, that dropped her knees on the
face, wailing around on the floor.
526
:And I stood there with my larger advisor.
527
:I'm like, this is impressive, you know?
528
:And I just remember, I
just looked down at her.
529
:I said, sweetheart, sweetheart, when
you're done doing that, mommy will
530
:be in the bedroom folding laundry.
531
:And I said, come on in.
532
:You can help me fold laundry,
then we'll play together.
533
:And I just stepped over the flailing.
534
:I just walked down the hallway
to my bedroom and I could see
535
:her out the corner of my eye.
536
:And I could see that she just had
this moment where she was like.
537
:She, she got off the floor.
538
:That was her last tantrum.
539
:Oh.
540
:So she never had another one.
541
:And I, I often liken
how I was as a victim.
542
:You know, you learn all
these behaviors to cope.
543
:Right.
544
:The critical, being critical of yourself.
545
:Or you learn to, you know, moan
and whine about things or complain.
546
:Or sometimes we get bitter and we
learn all these mechanisms and coping
547
:skills that aren't empowering us.
548
:They're just keeping us on the floor.
549
:Right.
550
:In victim mode.
551
:So yes, you are a victim.
552
:That's painful.
553
:Let's talk about that.
554
:Now you're moving into Survivor.
555
:Hey, I'm overcoming this.
556
:Yeah.
557
:I'm growing in spite of this.
558
:But then once we grow from Survivor,
that's where we become an overcomer.
559
:And that is where we are the most
lethal to the kingdom of darkness.
560
:Hmm.
561
:Because now we know if
I can overcome this.
562
:My friends can too.
563
:Speaker 2: Yes.
564
:Speaker 3: And I'm not gonna fix them.
565
:I'm not gonna try and control them
because the only control we get is
566
:self-control, not other control.
567
:Speaker 4: Yeah.
568
:Speaker 3: I am going to just be who God
has reshaped me to be a woman who's had a
569
:painful journey that has allowed Jesus to
show her where he was in every incident.
570
:And now I can pass my story
along as an offering and a guide
571
:for you to take at your pace.
572
:And Lisa, that's why the enemy doesn't
want women to find their voice.
573
:That's why he wants them to stay stuck.
574
:That's why he doesn't want
them to write the book.
575
:Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
576
:Speaker 3: Because it's
going to bless other people.
577
:And your book.
578
:When it comes out, I can't wait to
champion it because you're so congruent
579
:and authentic and all of these stories
you're willing to tell on yourself.
580
:Show me that you really have learned
to conquer that performance because
581
:you're vulnerable and you're humble.
582
:And even though you may not
believe it yet, I see it.
583
:Speaker 2: I see you.
584
:You're so sweet.
585
:You're gonna make me cry.
586
:I
587
:Speaker 3: do.
588
:I see it in you.
589
:You, you've come so far.
590
:I see it.
591
:You're so
592
:Speaker 2: sweet.
593
:Well, and it's funny because, and honey,
I'm looking at, we're going way over time.
594
:I might have to make, I'm sorry.
595
:No, I'm sorry.
596
:Do you have the time to keep talking too?
597
:Go for
598
:Speaker 3: it.
599
:Unless you want me to stop?
600
:Speaker 2: No.
601
:And then
602
:Speaker 3: we'll stop right now.
603
:Speaker 2: I don't, but I, because as
you're talking about this, and I, I
604
:think I remember this in the book too.
605
:I think that before I got hit
over the head with the mm-hmm.
606
:You know, stage one cancer and sat
through that whole hard treatment.
607
:Mm-hmm.
608
:Um.
609
:It's so funny because I was
writing my stories per Bob.
610
:Speaker 5: I love him.
611
:Speaker 2: Yes, we do.
612
:I do.
613
:I love him.
614
:So cute.
615
:So I'm walking with two friends.
616
:I had, I had gone and gotten my
mammogram and we were heading out to
617
:Arizona the next day on the long trip.
618
:'cause my baby goes to,
to college out there.
619
:And so I was, I went, got my mammogram.
620
:Never was afraid of
anything with breast cancer.
621
:Not in my family.
622
:Don't even on the radar.
623
:Not a big chesty woman.
624
:I was always worried about my heart.
625
:I thought I should get my heart checked.
626
:And I was like, well, I'll do this.
627
:It's easier.
628
:So I'm out on this walk, I'm out on this
walk with friends after packing it all in.
629
:Right?
630
:We're hiking and I was.
631
:Because I do wanna share what I learned.
632
:Right?
633
:Yeah.
634
:I'm sharing all this garbage about
how to eat well, intermittent
635
:fasting, like I'm telling, like
I like wanna tell you what to do.
636
:Yeah.
637
:Now when I look back at that, can
you imagine how annoying that was?
638
:How annoying is that?
639
:Like who, and that's how
my book would've been.
640
:My book would've been do this.
641
:And then it's like, so I'll catch myself,
Andy, like telling people how to eat.
642
:And I go, well, I mean, look at me.
643
:I got,
644
:Speaker 3: yeah, we get, and
we're like, I don't know anything.
645
:But hey, you know, if it sticks,
it's probably the Holy Spirit.
646
:Throw it on the wall.
647
:It just, if it sticks and
doesn't slide off, it's
648
:Speaker 2: probably
649
:Speaker 3: the Lord.
650
:Speaker 2: Well, and I'm a horrible
one where I grab all this stuff.
651
:My daughter's a medical doctor and she,
I don't know where she came from because
652
:I grab onto all these things and I.
653
:Okay, we gotta do this.
654
:I don't really know why.
655
:I dunno.
656
:But I know, I heard it's good
for you, so I'm just gonna do
657
:it because I heard, because I
thought I could control everything.
658
:I thought I could.
659
:Yes.
660
:Yeah.
661
:It's an illusion.
662
:It's so crazy.
663
:Mm-hmm.
664
:It's so crazy.
665
:Okay, I have to round this
up and I do have to end it.
666
:'cause I have taken more
time than I said I would.
667
:But I did talk about, I wanted
to talk a little bit about tools.
668
:I just want 'em for myself.
669
:And if any of the listeners out there are
feeling like I judge people, Andy, I do.
670
:And I don't want to.
671
:And I'm not just talking about like,
I'm, I'm working on that where I'm
672
:being just like you said, those
multimillionaire women that you're
673
:always like, Ooh, the now I go up and
I talk to 'em and they come to my barn
674
:and they sit down with me and we snack
and we talk and we talk about Jesus.
675
:And they believe in him too.
676
:You know what I mean?
677
:And it's like, oh.
678
:Speaker 5: Yes.
679
:Speaker 2: But I also do the
opposite where I see someone in the
680
:street who looks different than me.
681
:Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
682
:Speaker 2: And I judge.
683
:Mm.
684
:I don't wanna do that anymore.
685
:Speaker 5: Mm.
686
:And
687
:Speaker 2: I, and I, now,
I'm becoming aware of it.
688
:Speaker 5: Mm.
689
:Speaker 2: But it is so ingrained.
690
:Mm.
691
:That judgment, I don't want that anymore.
692
:What do you do besides becoming
aware of it and seeing it?
693
:Mm-hmm.
694
:And I guess taking steps.
695
:Mm-hmm.
696
:Like maybe now, next time reach out to
someone that looks different than me.
697
:Yeah.
698
:Speaker 3: Yeah.
699
:Speaker 2: I don't know.
700
:What do you, what do you do about
701
:Speaker 3: that?
702
:What's your, I think your first thing
that you mentioned, the awareness.
703
:Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
704
:Speaker 4: I think
705
:Speaker 3: that that's the most
empowering part right there.
706
:Is the, the awareness that you, you
have had this propensity to sort
707
:of create stories for other people.
708
:Speaker 4: Yes.
709
:Speaker 3: Right to write their story.
710
:And, um, I think I can
tell you what not to do.
711
:Um, I know that I have put myself in
the position before where I felt like
712
:I needed to kind of tell people what's
what, you know, um, to tell them I
713
:wouldn't do that or I would do this.
714
:Now I just have suspended
all of that as well.
715
:Uh, years and years and years now.
716
:I just don't even remember how long
it's been that I haven't done that.
717
:I think How did you
718
:Speaker 2: stop that?
719
:Because I'm not good at that.
720
:Speaker 3: That the reason
that I stopped that is that I
721
:saw it didn't bear any fruit.
722
:That's true.
723
:It was like, this is not
bearing any fruit in them.
724
:They don't feel loved,
they don't feel special.
725
:They feel, you know, like, um, criticized
rather than, you know, corrected,
726
:you know, they would do something.
727
:Um.
728
:I, I can't stand gossip.
729
:I just, I just stand it.
730
:I hate it.
731
:But rather than me saying, why,
why would you say something
732
:like that about somebody?
733
:What it did is, and yeah, it was wrong.
734
:I was, was calling it out because
I don't have this justice thing.
735
:Right.
736
:And a lot of it for me was
about justice, injustice, and.
737
:If I called out the story, they
just got defensive and critical.
738
:Rather than realizing that if I just
stayed in their lives and didn't
739
:participate in the gossip, I would
be modeling something that would
740
:be healthier for them, where then
they could look at and have the
741
:opportunity to own their own behavior.
742
:And so then when I confronted
situations like with the gossip, like
743
:Why would you say that about somebody?
744
:And then they got defensive.
745
:I wasn't doing this.
746
:Then they felt they needed to go clear
their name with the person preemptively
747
:and created this whole storm.
748
:I realized there are times when.
749
:People are acting not their best selves.
750
:And I just keep that core value within
me of kindness, love, and respect.
751
:And I keep being who God has
asked me to be in that situation.
752
:And I keep being myself, somebody who
loves, who doesn't gossip, who doesn't
753
:do these unkind things because I
learned that it hurts people if I do.
754
:So I think part of it, part
of the answer is modeling.
755
:I think to answer your question,
to circle back around to judging
756
:the person on the street.
757
:Um, and you know, actually to back
up a little bit on the modeling
758
:thing, I think that's really
what Jesus did for his disciple.
759
:I
760
:Speaker 2: was just gonna say that, Amy.
761
:Yeah.
762
:Speaker 3: This is the only program
Jesus left us with is discipleship.
763
:Yes.
764
:Build my kingdom.
765
:And by the way, just
disciple 1% at a time.
766
:So that's what he did.
767
:They were acting the fool
all the time, you know?
768
:Yeah.
769
:And he just loved them.
770
:Yes, he would.
771
:He was hard on the religious and he was.
772
:Loving and disciplinary
toward his disciples.
773
:Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
774
:Speaker 3: And so we don't tolerate
any religious garbage, but we do
775
:prioritize relationship in a way where
we model healthy, loving behavior.
776
:And eventually people around
us can either choose to change
777
:and say, Hey, you know what?
778
:This might not be a tool I wanna
have in my tool bag anymore either.
779
:Right.
780
:Or, and I like the way she
never talks about anybody.
781
:I wanna be like that.
782
:Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
783
:Speaker 3: Or they will slowly
distance themselves and God will
784
:bring their lesson in that way.
785
:Yeah.
786
:But that's not up to me.
787
:That's only up to me.
788
:Yes.
789
:To become the most loving, kind version
of myself that I can and let people be
790
:themselves while maintaining the values
God has worked so hard to instill in me.
791
:And I'm not by any means perfect.
792
:I, I do stupid things still
that I have to repent for.
793
:Right.
794
:So that's part one.
795
:And I think part two, and like you
said, you have to wrap this up, so
796
:I'm gonna try really fast to wrap this
question up for you, but how not to
797
:judge people is that I always ask Jesus.
798
:Um, Jesus, if I'm prone to wanting
to judge a situation, I say, can you
799
:just give me your eyes and your heart?
800
:Yeah.
801
:In fact, it happened the other day.
802
:I saw somebody and I thought, boy, it
sure looks like they could use a hug.
803
:And, um, the Lord said,
um, or a touch right?
804
:Or a word.
805
:And the Lord said, um, not, not from you.
806
:Speaker 4: Not from you.
807
:Speaker 3: And I thought, okay, he
has something else planned for them.
808
:I might have had motives
that were not right.
809
:Right.
810
:And I wouldn't have given
the right love, right?
811
:So I wait, I wait on him in that
moment, Lord, what do you wanna say?
812
:Do you have something you
want me to say to this person?
813
:Every time he'll tell me, either he'll
give me something to say that's loving
814
:or he'll tell me, you know, not from you.
815
:Just, yeah.
816
:Just smile.
817
:That's enough.
818
:Speaker 2: I love that.
819
:Andy, I will you please come back.
820
:'cause I feel like
821
:Speaker 3: I'm sorry.
822
:I should come with a warning talk too
823
:Speaker 2: much.
824
:No, you do not.
825
:Because I am sit.
826
:I could talk to you for every
thing that we're talking about.
827
:I have another situation that
I could talk to you about.
828
:Mm.
829
:Where God has been.
830
:You know what I mean?
831
:Been there when you're talking to someone.
832
:Jesus.
833
:It's just Jesus.
834
:Yeah.
835
:It's amazing.
836
:So I really would like to have
you back if you're up for it.
837
:Be honored.
838
:And um, I just want you to know how
grateful I am for you taking the time.
839
:I'm so thankful that
God brought us together.
840
:We didn't even really get to
talk that much at the Oaks when
841
:we were working there, but I
was so excited about your book.
842
:I was so happy to read it.
843
:Thank you for listening and writing it.
844
:And letting God use you.
845
:I so appreciate it and I'm going
to have a link in my show notes
846
:for anyone who wants to buy it.
847
:I, I have given it away.
848
:I have had friends, um, purchase
it because it's amazing.
849
:It's amazing.
850
:I feel like for every
woman, it's for every woman.
851
:I believe so.
852
:Speaker 3: I do believe that Jesus gave
me the title, but I really do believe
853
:it's lessons on, Hey, you know what?
854
:Learn, don't, don't learn
this one the hard way.
855
:Just learn it from me.
856
:Speaker 2: Yes.
857
:And uh, and we might learn
it the hard way, but then
858
:it'll Thank you, Lisa.
859
:Thank you.
860
:You're
861
:Speaker 3: so extraordinary.
862
:Yeah.
863
:So are
864
:Speaker 2: you.
865
:You're a blessing.
866
:Thank you so much, Andy.
867
:Thank you.
