Divorce Done Right: Empathy, Boundaries, and Co-Parenting Wisdom
in this episode, host Lesa Koskiis joined by matrimonial attorneys Morgan Mazor and Lauren Crane from New York City to discuss the complex topics of co-parenting and divorce. The discussion covers practical tips for managing summer custody arrangements, the importance of forward-thinking in divorce proceedings, and the need for creative and collaborative approaches to achieve the best outcomes for families. Both attorneys share their personal journeys into matrimonial law and emphasize the significance of controlling emotions and communication during divorce. They also provide insights into the lengthy divorce process in New York and stress the effectiveness of mediation and coaching to facilitate smoother divorces.
00:00 Introduction and Technical Difficulties
00:33 Meet the Guests: Morgan Mazor and Lauren Crane
01:36 Lauren's Journey into Matrimonial Law
03:42 Morgan's Path and the Importance of Creativity in Law
08:06 The Challenges of Co-Parenting During Summer
12:01 The Importance of Mediation and Creative Solutions
20:31 The Lengthy Divorce Process in New York
25:59 The Role of Mediation in Resolving Cases
31:26 Conclusion and Contact Information
Transcript
Welcome listeners.
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:I'm really excited that you're here
and I'm actually very excited that
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:my guests have hung in with me.
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:They've had some technical difficulties
and they're still smiling at me.
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:I said I wanted to say
the F word, but I did.
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:So, so we were having some
technical difficulties, but we
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:got it worked out and we're here.
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:And listeners, I'm so, so grateful
that they stuck around because it has
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:been a bit since I've talked about, I.
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:Co-parenting and
parenting through divorce.
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:And I've got two beautiful
attorneys here with me today.
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:I've got Morgan Zo and I've got
Lauren Crane all the way from New
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:York City, but, but we all live
the same, you know, the same lives.
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:We have the same stories
through through divorce.
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:So we're gonna talk a
little bit about, you know.
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:Working through things in the summer,
'cause that can get tricky with
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:divorce and schedules for kids.
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:We're gonna talk about that a little bit,
but before we really get into the nuts and
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:bolts of helping kids through the divorce
process, I wanna get to know these.
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:Beautiful human beings on the other
side of the screen a little bit better.
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:And so I'm just going to let them share
their authentic story that led them to
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:help people through these hard times.
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:So welcome again.
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:Thank you.
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:I feel blessed that
you're still here smiling.
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:I don't know who wants, who wants
to start with their story as
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:to what led them to this work?
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:Speaker 2: I'll let Lauren take it.
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:Go for it.
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:Speaker 3: Okay, great.
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:Hi, nice to meet you, Lisa, on Zoom.
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:Um, so I have been a
matrimonial lawyer for 22 years.
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:I, my father was a matrimonial attorney
and when I was in law school, he
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:got me my first job as a matrimonial
attorney, actually a New Jersey and.
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:I thought it was exciting.
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:I thought it was actually helping people.
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:I thought that was nitty gritty.
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:You were really helping kids.
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:You were helping adults.
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:It was a hard time and it was really
a way to use my law degree in a
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:positive way, you know, so that people
could move forward and live still
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:fruitful lives even after divorce.
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:So I have been with my partner for.
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:Our other partner who's been on on
the Zoom for a little over 20 years.
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:Speaker: Wow.
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:Speaker 3: And she trains me and
is an amazing pioneer in this.
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:And she was an amazing boss
and then turned into partner.
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:And so I've been doing this
mainly with her and it's been
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:an incredible experience.
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:And Jor and Morgan joined us in 2018.
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:Yes.
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:Yeah, so we've been working the three of
us as a team since:
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:Speaker: So I just noticed, um, you
didn't call yourself a divorce attorney.
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:I.
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:What's that about?
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:Speaker 2: Yeah, Lauren,
what is that about?
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:Speaker 3: Well, one, we do
more than just divorce, right?
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:Yeah.
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:So we do preap and we do post
maps, and we do obviously divorce.
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:That's our mean practice.
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:But you know, I mean, I don't think that.
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:You have to label yourself
as a divorce attorney.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:Right.
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:I mean, I do that on a daily basis.
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:If anyone asks me what I do, I
say matrimonial and then they
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:have no idea what a matrimonial
attorney, and then I say divorce.
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:So I get to the, the nasty later.
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:But you know, I guess I just try and see
myself as not as the end of something,
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:but of the start of something new.
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:Yeah.
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:So I always think of divorce is the end.
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:Speaker: Yep.
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:Yep.
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:That's how I like to look at it too.
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:Okay.
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:Lauren, you're kind of the newbie,
but you've been there a while too.
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:Speaker 2: Yeah.
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:So, um, when I went to law school and
I'm the first lawyer in my family, I went
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:rogue on all of us and, and my family.
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:Um, and I, as I was going
through law school, actually,
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:there was big changes happening.
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:Uh, gay marriage was just
about to be legalized.
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:Um, and so there was this whole area that
had not really been explored and it was
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:helping a whole different demographic of
people that I was really excited about.
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:And that was what really
got me interested in it.
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:I knew that I wanted to litigate and
I knew I wanted to be with people.
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:I didn't just wanna push paper, but I
really wanted to touch people's lives.
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:And I couldn't think of a better
way when people need help the most.
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:'cause this is the most
chaotic moment, you know?
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:We really meet people at their.
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:Absolute worst.
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:'cause it's emotional.
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:You know, people think marriage is
a business, you know, that's what
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:they try and make it seem like, oh,
it's just like a business merger.
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:And then it, but it's not.
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:There's kids, it's life, it's love.
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:And you know, it's, um,
it keeps me on my toes.
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:And so I enjoy it for that, you know?
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:And I also enjoy the fact that there's no.
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:Black letter law, everything
is a little bit up for gray.
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:And as a lawyer, that gets my
creative juices flowing, right?
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:And I get to think of ways to be, you
know, I'm not just saying, well, it
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:says X, so this is what it's gonna be.
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:No, there's a little nuance to it.
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:No divorce is the same.
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:I mean, I can't tell you how many times
Lauren and I laugh and we have a client
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:come in and be like, oh, I was just
talking to so and so at Starbucks who had
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:a divorce and this is exactly how it went.
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:And I'm like, great.
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:'cause your divorce will
go nothing like that.
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:Literally everything you.
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:It's just not, it just isn't that way.
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:So it's,
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:Speaker: yeah, it's so crazy because
I have found too, like, family
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:members will start talking to me
like, well, what do I do about this?
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:You know, my kids getting a
divorce and I, I have to ponder it.
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:And they're like, well, you're the expert.
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:You know, how do you not know this?
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:It's like everyone is different.
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:And I love, I so love to hear.
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:The two of you talking about
helping families and about being
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:creative because I am about doing
divorce different, and I'm a, I.
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:I kinda say like, I'm a recovering
attorney, sorry, I'm more, I'm more of
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:a mediator now and we'll call in the,
you know, call in the attorneys to
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:work with, but I really love to help
people work together and craft their
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:agreement and then they can go get some
representation because I can't advise
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:them when I'm helping them, but, and it
is great because you can be creative.
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:Through a divorce.
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:I have to ask, have you any of
you personally been through any
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:of this besides watching your
dad, you know, do this work?
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:Have you personally been touched by it?
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:Speaker 2: No.
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:Not in my family.
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:No.
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:Speaker: Not in mine either.
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:Okay.
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:So that's interesting.
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:Which
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:Speaker 2: is shocking, honestly.
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:Speaker: No.
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:You wanna know what's really shocking.
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:Neither have I, and I've been
married for 34 years, so Yeah.
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:But you know, and I, I see, I've been
through hard things and I know how
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:to get people through transitions
and you know, like my surgeon
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:doesn't have to have had the surgery.
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:You know what I mean?
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:So I don't feel like I have to apologize.
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:For not having gone through it.
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:Right.
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:So I think that's interesting though
because most people in this field,
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:Speaker 2: I actually think that's,
I, I find when we've worked with
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:colleagues who have had their own
personal divorce, sometimes they
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:get back into that personal mindset.
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:Yes.
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:And I actually think it does their
clients a disservice because our
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:job is to see outside is to be
their logical force to help them not
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:think emotional, but get through it.
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:Right.
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:And I think sometimes people, when
they've had that experience, they go
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:back to that, they revert back to that
time in their lives and then they get
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:emotionally and then it's impossible.
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:'cause you go to the other side, you
want a lawyer because you're like,
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:I wanna be able to work this out.
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:If I wanted to deal with the other
person, I, we don't need lawyers.
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:Right.
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:That would be.
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:The opposite of this.
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:So I actually think it's good for all
of us to have not done that, so we
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:can come with those fresh eyes to say.
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:This is how we can help
navigate this for you.
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:Speaker: Absolutely.
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:So that you can keep the calm so that
they're using their prodigy brains.
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:Right?
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:Yeah.
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:That's so tricky when
they're so emotional.
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:Well, okay, so let's talk a
little bit about the kiddos.
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:'cause they're one of the most
important things to me and to every
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:person that I know who's going
through a divorce and has children.
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:They are.
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:And then comes the house.
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:What are they gonna do these days?
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:But, um, tell me, summer gets tricky.
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:So tell me what you've got going
on, what things work for you, share
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:a little bit, give us some insight.
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:Make me a better mediator, better at
connecting plans, and help the listeners
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:figure out these tricky obstacles too.
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:Speaker 3: So I always say I wish school
was 12 months out of the year because
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:the transitions can occur from school to
school, which is the best for the kids.
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:'cause then the parents are not
interacting between each other.
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:But in the summer there's lots more
vacation, there's lots more interaction.
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:Some kids go to camp.
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:Some kids don't go to camp.
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:They're not an as structured of a
day, and it's not the whole time.
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:So people have to negotiate who's gonna
get what weeks of vacations or what
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:days of vacations, and will people
accommodate a few hours here, a few
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:hours there for travel arrangements.
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:They also, you know.
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:Maybe they don't see their spouse for
two months or their former spouse for two
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:months because of school, and the kids
are always transitioning at school, and
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:now all of a sudden, every week they have
to see them two or three times a week.
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:And you have to explain to your client.
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:You can't make every exchange
war of the roses no matter what
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:is going on in your divorce,
post-divorce, or whatever is going on.
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:You need to be the adult and
your kids need to be protected
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:just in like any other situation.
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:So you need to keep it under bay.
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:Keep the exchanges minimal.
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:Make them, you know, if we're working
in New York City, make them with the
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:doorman in the lobby of a building.
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:Make them easy for kids so it's not
confrontational and it's in public.
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:Don't have it be in the front of a
house if you're in the, not in a city.
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:Meet at a restaurant and
do the exchanges there.
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:Make it as easy as possible so that
your kids are the most comfortable,
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:and then it's easy for them to
transition from one home to the
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:other home without any fighting.
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:That is the most important thing,
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:Speaker: right?
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:And so it sounds like what's
best for the kids is to not see
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:their, their parents fighting.
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:So if you can transition at
home and not fight, great.
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:But if you can't, then you've
gotta take those extra steps.
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:I like, I like those ideas of doing it,
um, in a public place to make it easy.
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:'cause it's not easy.
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:Speaker 3: And I think it's
also up to the attorney.
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:You have to give the parents the
idea to not do it in the home.
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:The, the default is everyone thinks
that the exchanges have to be at home.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:Versus an attorney can say, you
know, maybe uncomfortable if
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:one parent's living in the home.
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:To go back to the former residents
and do the exchange there.
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:Think about a neutral place.
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:Your kids like a restaurant.
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:You could do it in the parking
lot, and then a parent can take the
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:child to breakfast, lunch, dinner,
whatever time the exchange is.
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:You have to try and be creative,
make it as easy as possible so
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:that it doesn't become heated.
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:Speaker: Right.
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:Yep.
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:That's such a great idea.
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:And it is different in New York than
like rural Minnesota or Wisconsin,
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:but you still can, you know, figure
out those places, um, to meet.
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:Okay.
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:Any other tips for summer?
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:Besides exchanges?
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:Speaker 2: I think it goes along.
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:It's not just summer.
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:I think summer does breed a lot
more interaction 'cause there's
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:a little bit more looseness.
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:But I think that we always
advise our clients to.
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:Look internally about their part of
the dynamic with their spouse, and I
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:think this kind of goes, I mean this
is like what's in vogue now, but I'll
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:say it like the let them theory, right?
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:Which is like you can't control how
your spouse is going to communicate.
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:But you can control your
response and your way that you
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:contribute to the back and forth.
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:And so we have a lot of conversations
with our client as things are in
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:flux, whether vacation or whatever,
how to communicate with them.
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:'cause that goes a really
long way in turning down.
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:The animosity and the
anxiety around the exchanges.
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:Not every single thing has to be a fight.
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:I mean, a big thing is FaceTime, right?
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:And FaceTime becomes such
an issue in our lives.
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:Definitely during, uh, the summer too.
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:'cause like their li their days
have changed, so the timings of
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:this changes and so the other
spouse doesn't answer or FaceTime.
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:We have clients that are
screenshotting sending it, doing this.
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:I haven't spoken to my kid in 10 days.
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:I haven't done this.
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:That's not a productive
way to try to navigate.
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:This issue, you know?
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:So we try to give them the skillset,
which is maybe make it more structured
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:if you were able to do it a little looser
during the, the weekday or whatever,
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:because there was more your, the day was
different make, it has to be at this time.
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:Exactly.
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:And if that time doesn't work,
then the next day you'll call your
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:child, and if that day doesn't
work, then we'll figure it out.
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:Then you can get the lawyers involved.
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:But when you're trying to
argue between each other.
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:All that does is create, but then
the phone calls the tension on the
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:phone, especially with young kids.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:You know, daddy hasn't
called you or the a child.
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:We just had a client complain today
that the um, child said, daddy, how come
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:you haven't called me in a couple days?
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:And he would say, in the moment, I've
called you every day, and now the
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:child's been involved in this, you know?
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:Right.
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:And that's not good.
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:Speaker: Yep.
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:Okay.
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:Well, I have to say one thing, Morgan,
I have to say Mel Robbins would be proud
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:of you from, but I have to, I have to
tell you too, I'm, I'm so impressed with
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:the two of you truly, and listeners,
if you are in New York, you would be
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:who I would go to because this is,
this is what is standing out to me.
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:I'm also a, a coach now.
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:I don't.
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:I just use it in my life.
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:I use it with my clients.
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:But you're using coaching by, you
know, by you are helping your clients
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:not to make this into a big, huge feud
and to actually help the children.
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:A lot of attorneys have bad reps
and I've seen attorneys who will
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:mess up a mediation deal just
because they wanna keep that.
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:I'm sorry.
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:I am an attorney.
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:I love attorneys.
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:They're need it.
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:But I really love what you're doing and
I love what you're saying about this.
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:You're coaching them on
how to communicate better.
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:One attorney does that not
any that I know that well.
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:So kudos to you.
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:That's really different and I hope that
you're advertising that you are different.
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:Speaker 2: Yeah, we try.
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:We, you know, the big thing about our
firm also, which is really special, and
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:I really feel lucky every day that I get
to do this with Lauren and with Susan.
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:We're a small.
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:All women firm, everyone in our firm is
a woman, and we really listen to each
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:other in a way that I don't think I
could have ever gotten that experience.
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:Mm-hmm.
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:And we argue with each other.
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:It's not like, yes, men, like, you
know, in another big firm, you might be
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:afraid to have an idea or try something.
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:We really believe in trying to
get the best for our client.
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:Yeah.
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:We can make another motion.
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:Yeah.
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:We can earn whatever money.
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:That's not the focus of
how we live our practice.
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:We're always trying to get the
best results, and honestly,
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:most of the time the best result
is not going through court.
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:The court system, you know,
in New York is not perfect.
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:Um, uh, it's, it's not perfect.
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:There are five judges
for all of Manhattan.
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:Which is just, you can imagine the
caseload, the timing is slow and Lauren
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:will laugh 'cause I love to litigate.
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:That's my favorite part of the job.
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:Lauren likes to mediate, but.
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:I still want, I'm still coaching them.
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:How do I get you out of this faster?
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:How do I get you with everything
that's important to you?
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:And obviously it's not gonna be
everything, but what's the most important?
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:How do we get that for you?
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:Speaker: Yeah, and I love that.
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:And you were doing that.
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:It's shining through just in
talking to you because you are
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:coaching them to set it up so that
they don't have to go to court.
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:Set up, maybe be more structured
and sometimes they're gonna have to,
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:and they've got you if they need it.
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:Okay, so we've got a couple of
of good tips here for summer.
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:The exchanges we're talking about,
the, the calls, the, the FaceTime
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:calls, the kinda let them theory,
that's always so important, right?
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:Because what people need to remember is
even if that other parent really sucks,
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:just do your best because that is going
to impact the children to have one.
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:Great parent that's going to really
help them more than one great
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:parent arguing with another parent.
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:So, um, do you have any other, it
doesn't even have to be summer tips, but
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:tips to help people co-parent better?
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:So I,
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:Speaker 3: I think that what
gets lost is divorce is the short
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:snippet of a person's life, even
if it's a two to five year process.
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:After everyone's focused on when their
kids are young or maybe they're teenagers
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:and through the divorce process, and
what they forget is, is this is the same
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:person who I'm gonna have to parent with.
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:For the of these kids' lives.
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:Even if your child is emancipated,
your kids can have issues well into
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:their thirties and forties, right?
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:You that you're still gonna be the only
parent for this person, and you have to
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:learn, even if you don't like that person
anymore, how to get along with them.
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:You're gonna have weddings, you're
gonna have babies, you're gonna have ba,
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:grand babies, baby showers, everything.
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:You have to teach your clients when
they're with you on how to treat the other
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:parent, like Morgan was saying, and how
to take it forward, go through issues that
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:they could confront, such as, what are
you gonna do when your kids get married?
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:Don't you wanna be able to sit at the
same wedding, you know, or a Sweet
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:16 party or any other big event.
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:You, you have to get your client to look
forward, so maybe they would sacrifice a
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:little bit financially to end the case.
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:What clients don't understand is that
every dollar that you may save or spend
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:during divorce, you may not actually
be saving in any settlement because
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:you're gonna get rid of attorneys and
we're expensive and settling a case.
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:It's so much more beneficial to the
person and to the children because you're
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:never getting your years back, right?
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:So if you're gonna wind up spending
five years litigating this case,
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:you're losing five years to litigation,
which is draining and has an
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:effect on everybody's personality,
and you just have to remember.
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:That if you settle, you have to
think forward thinking, maybe
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:'cause you're so angry and you're
going through this divorce, you
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:can't meet the next person, right?
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:Yeah.
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:So keep forward thinking,
stop looking back.
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:Yes.
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:When you go to trial, you
have to only look back.
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:You have to look back and prove your
evidence and so forth and so on.
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:But if you're gonna settle, think
about how you can move forward
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:best for you and your children.
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:Speaker: I love that, and I always say,
my listeners have heard this, how you end
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:one thing is how you begin another, so.
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:Work on yourself.
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:Work on yourself like nuts,
because that is what is going
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:to give you a better life.
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:It's going to figure out, get a coach,
get a therapist, get someone who can help
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:you so that you can handle that parent,
because like you said, you are connected
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:to them for the rest of your life.
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:You are and you don't want it to be
icky and you want to have a better
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:life after divorce and carrying all
that isn't really gonna get you there.
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:I have to ask you one question.
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:I'm just so curious.
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:How long does it take to
get divorced in New York?
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:Speaker 2: I.
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:That is the million dollar question.
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:Um, and honestly, it
really, really depends.
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:Um, the New York courts just
had, uh, the matrimonial part
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:just had a major overhaul.
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:We have four new judges, um, and only
one that's been there for a while.
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:And so they are picking up pieces
from other, from other judges.
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:And so things have never really.
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:Caught up from COVID.
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:I mean, it, it, it's, you know, if
you are, if you are litigating both
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:finances and custody, it could take you
even two years to even get to a trial
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:Speaker: really on custody.
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:Speaker 3: On just custody.
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:Very rarely do you do custody and
finances in New York at the same time.
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:So it could take.
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:Two years to get to a custody
trial and then another two to
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:three to get to a financial trial.
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:Speaker 2: And that's in Manhattan.
427
:Some courts do.
428
:Westchester has done, we, we just
did one in Westchester where they
429
:did it, but the, at part of it, we
weren't getting full trial days.
430
:So we would get, we, we would be
scheduled for a full trial day.
431
:We would sit there for a trial
day, but we'd be kept getting
432
:pulled out for other cases.
433
:So we would get maybe an hour in the
morning, maybe two, and then have to
434
:keep doing that until the trial was done.
435
:Um, so.
436
:It's, it, it's a really
unfortunately long process.
437
:Speaker: Okay.
438
:So, and I'm, so, this isn't like people
around me don't have that issue, but
439
:for those poor, you know, residents
in New York, they're kind of in limbo.
440
:I mean, how, like it is hard to be
in the midst of a divorce and trying
441
:to figure out how you're gonna pay
for, so what do people do if it's
442
:two years that they're sitting there?
443
:Speaker 2: So they'll, there'll be
what we call in your pendente decision.
444
:So temporary during the pendency
of the action decisions.
445
:But, so if you are the recipient, if
you're the money spouse and you're
446
:the recipient of a very expensive
award, and you don't think that that
447
:award is the right award, because
the court can consider differ
448
:factors during the pendency and then
has to consider different factors
449
:when they decide the final award.
450
:Okay?
451
:Uh, you are stuck with that award.
452
:Until you get to a trial, even if
you're the non-money spouse and
453
:you're not happy with it, it's
really hard to modify something.
454
:So you might get a decision on
that interim amount in the, in the
455
:first six months, but then that's
what's carrying you forward for the,
456
:until the divorce, until the trial.
457
:Yeah.
458
:Speaker: Wow.
459
:That's tricky.
460
:Speaker 2: So like what makes it even
more difficult for us to resolve cases
461
:is like if the award is really, really
generous and everyone knows it's really,
462
:really generous, it's really hard to
walk it back and, and the person's just
463
:sitting there taking that even though
they have counsel fees, even though
464
:they know other things are happening.
465
:But you can't say, okay, but we
know the court's not gonna do that.
466
:So like, let's walk, let's try to
come to the table and figure it out.
467
:And it's hard when you
have those types of awards.
468
:Um, in New York also the, there's
a rebuttable presumption that the
469
:money spouse, the contributes to
the non-money spouse counsel fees.
470
:Um, and so those, so sometimes the
non-money spouse doesn't have an
471
:incentive to end the divorce because
they're not paying their own legal fees.
472
:So, you know, that old fashioned
having skin in the game, which
473
:everyone really needs to come and be
honest and fair is not always there.
474
:So we have some challenges.
475
:Yeah.
476
:You know, to get it
477
:Speaker 3: done.
478
:I'm gonna give you the flip side though,
because we've also had cases where our
479
:client is the non moneyed spouse and
they're not getting sufficient money
480
:and support, and then they are forced.
481
:Right, because it's not changing.
482
:And if you're on this road and you
have no access to investment accounts
483
:or the cash, you know, that's in one
person's name or it's in joint names
484
:and the banks, you know, won't liquidate
those funds due to an ongoing divorce
485
:proceeding, they could be crunched
and have to settle for less than they.
486
:Deserved in saying, because they
just have to finish this to be
487
:able to move on with their lives.
488
:So the problem with a long, and
also it'll take a long time to
489
:get to a custody award, right?
490
:So these people are fighting over
custody, could be two to three
491
:years before you get, that's
492
:Speaker: crazy.
493
:I mean, how, how do those
families, how do they survive
494
:on the temporary, they're just.
495
:Speaker 3: They just go, there's
nothing we can, there's literally
496
:you can't, speedy trial is your best.
497
:That's what the Appell division says.
498
:Speaker: Are you, are the two of you doing
a lot of mediations to help people come to
499
:a, you know, like a kind of col like in,
in Minnesota, I'm not part of it anymore.
500
:They have like collaborative
law, which some people.
501
:There's good and there's
the good and the bad.
502
:A lot of them are my friends,
so I'm not gonna say,
503
:but um, you know, I'm just
thinking in your case.
504
:Where the courts are so full, it
would really be a ripe place to have
505
:someone help them come to an agreement.
506
:You know, if they're each
represented by an attorney.
507
:Do you do that?
508
:Speaker 3: So I'm actually a trans
mediator and I am court appointed sometime
509
:as a mediator, and I love mediation.
510
:I like being the mediator.
511
:The problem is it takes so
long for parties a lot of
512
:times to get to mediation.
513
:They're at that point, you know, to,
they've had litigation fatigue, so
514
:sometimes they know too much and they're
too tired to actually really engage.
515
:So I prefer to get the case in
mediation right from the get go.
516
:Amen.
517
:It's very
518
:Speaker: easy.
519
:Amen.
520
:In fact, I stopped taking.
521
:People who have gone through and
are court appointed, I can't do it.
522
:I used to volunteer.
523
:I'm like, I can't do it anymore.
524
:It's so hard, um, to work
with them after all of that.
525
:But when they come to me right from
the beginning, oh, magic can happen.
526
:Not always.
527
:Sometimes.
528
:Sometimes you gotta like, okay,
you need to be represented
529
:and this isn't gonna work.
530
:But a lot of times it can work and it
sounds like New York could use that.
531
:Speaker 2: It exists here.
532
:And I think what we always try to
do is we always work on two tracks.
533
:Like even if they come into us and they're
not in the me, the mindset to settle right
534
:away, we're like, let's just talk to us
what a settlement would look like for you.
535
:So as we're getting to know the
client, as we're getting the discovery
536
:that we need, we're starting to put
together something for them to look at.
537
:It is often our.
538
:Initiative to then say, Hey,
what do you think about maybe
539
:throwing this out as a proposal?
540
:Like we will start that even if the
court proceeding is going, we're
541
:always trying to say, Hey, why don't
we take a look at what's happening
542
:now You, you wanted the court.
543
:You see how the court goes like, yeah,
now maybe, why don't we look at this?
544
:You know, why don't we think about this?
545
:And we are often, you know.
546
:I, I would say, and I would say this is
probably true for our field in a whole,
547
:like I think a lot of cases get to a
trial stage and then we'll settle it
548
:before our trial's really complete, right?
549
:Say that's just the
reality of where we live.
550
:Speaker: I, I, and again, I can't
say this enough, I love how the two
551
:of you, you're kind of mediating.
552
:You want them to negotiate that you
are the kind of attorneys that I like
553
:to find because you are the ones that
don't blow it up and go, well, you
554
:know, 'cause I tell 'em, I know the law.
555
:I tell them, you, you go to an
attorney, you could fight for this.
556
:And I'll tell both of 'em.
557
:You could get this, but let's
you know, how do you wanna do it?
558
:What works the.
559
:Speaker 3: I also say in mediation
always, so if you want an additional
560
:$50,000, how much are you gonna
pay your attorney to give you that?
561
:Speaker: Yep.
562
:Speaker 3: And you always, and I say
that to my clients as well, right?
563
:How much do you want to pay
me to get to that end goal?
564
:So I think it's a really important
question that attorneys always
565
:have to remind their clients,
because clients sometimes forget
566
:that attorney's fees are real.
567
:They're a real factor when
determining whether to settle.
568
:And you know, we're in New York City,
attorney's fees are very expensive and.
569
:It could be a real asset.
570
:You know, you may give up something,
but you don't have to see me anymore.
571
:Speaker: Yeah, you are, you are.
572
:Your firm is a diamond in the rough.
573
:I'm not kidding.
574
:Like I never, I didn't anticipate
this when talking with you.
575
:I love it.
576
:I mean, I would, I would practice law
in New York with you because I love
577
:what you're doing and I, listeners, I
hope that you do hear this and go there.
578
:Tell me, are there a lot of
colleagues like you in New York?
579
:Speaker 2: Y you know, it's an
unfortunate field that we practice in
580
:and you know, there are some wonderful
people who are on the same page.
581
:We are like, we can fight like hell,
like we have to, but know when it is
582
:time to get these people to a resolution,
help this family really see that.
583
:But then there's also the people
who, you know, almost are, feel like
584
:they're in their own divorce, you know?
585
:And amp it even more than it needs to be.
586
:And every email communication
is nasty and every interaction
587
:is is, you know, not pleasant.
588
:And it's unfortunate because, you know,
we're technically on the same team in
589
:that like, we gotta get this family from.
590
:Point A to point B, they
wanna be in point B, right?
591
:Maybe it looks a little different,
but they wanna be there, so
592
:how do we get them there?
593
:Speaker: Mm-hmm.
594
:Speaker 2: And you know, it's, it's, it's,
um, I don't know if it's just the nature
595
:of what we do, that that brings that
out in people, but that's the reality.
596
:Speaker: I love it.
597
:And, and I wanna say too, I
totally agree with you that
598
:sometimes there is a time to fight.
599
:There are, there are those cases
where, yep, you're gonna, there's
600
:nothing else that you can do but fight.
601
:Overall, I find, especially if you
have two willing participants Yeah.
602
:Who don't, you know, and you keep, and
I, I love what you're talking about.
603
:I love what you stand for.
604
:I wanna scream it from
the rooftops of New York.
605
:So that people know what you're doing
because it's pretty amazing and I
606
:love it, and my heart goes out to you
and I'm, I feel even more blessed to
607
:have spoken with both of you today.
608
:I so appreciate you joining
me on Zoom, which is weird and
609
:different because went down on me.
610
:I'm not sure what happened there,
but I, I really appreciate you.
611
:I appreciate what you're doing.
612
:We're gonna have your information in
the show notes, but I wanna know how do
613
:people find you if they need some help?
614
:Speaker 3: So the name of the
firm is Bender and Crane, and our
615
:website is bender and cream.com.
616
:Bender crane.com.
617
:There's no ampersand.
618
:Um.
619
:And we're both, uh, members of
the American Academy and we're
620
:both, uh, matrimonial lawyers
and we're both on super lawyers.
621
:So you can find us very many ways.
622
:You can Google us.
623
:I'm sure we both come up.
624
:Morgan may be a little more of a
easier find based on our last name.
625
:There's lots of Lauren Cranes
I've learned since I got married.
626
:20 years, you know.
627
:There's, you can find us.
628
:We're everywhere.
629
:Speaker: Yep.
630
:And you can, you can get in
touch with me and like I said,
631
:it will be in the show notes.
632
:So listeners, if you're in New York
City, go, if you are listening to
633
:this, there've been great tips.
634
:You can do this a better way, you
can help your children through this.
635
:And I'm talking to attorneys,
I'm talking to mediators, and I'm
636
:talking to people going through it.
637
:So I so appreciate you too.
638
:Thank you so much for being here.
639
:Speaker 3: Lisa, thank
640
:Speaker: Awesome.
641
:Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
642
:You too.