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Published on:

24th Jun 2025

Divorce Done Right: Empathy, Boundaries, and Co-Parenting Wisdom

in this episode, host Lesa Koskiis joined by matrimonial attorneys Morgan Mazor and Lauren Crane from New York City to discuss the complex topics of co-parenting and divorce. The discussion covers practical tips for managing summer custody arrangements, the importance of forward-thinking in divorce proceedings, and the need for creative and collaborative approaches to achieve the best outcomes for families. Both attorneys share their personal journeys into matrimonial law and emphasize the significance of controlling emotions and communication during divorce. They also provide insights into the lengthy divorce process in New York and stress the effectiveness of mediation and coaching to facilitate smoother divorces.

00:00 Introduction and Technical Difficulties

00:33 Meet the Guests: Morgan Mazor and Lauren Crane

01:36 Lauren's Journey into Matrimonial Law

03:42 Morgan's Path and the Importance of Creativity in Law

08:06 The Challenges of Co-Parenting During Summer

12:01 The Importance of Mediation and Creative Solutions

20:31 The Lengthy Divorce Process in New York

25:59 The Role of Mediation in Resolving Cases

31:26 Conclusion and Contact Information

 Bender & Crane

DIY Parenting Plan Course

Find More From Lesa Here!

Transcript
Speaker:

Welcome listeners.

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I'm really excited that you're here

and I'm actually very excited that

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my guests have hung in with me.

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They've had some technical difficulties

and they're still smiling at me.

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I said I wanted to say

the F word, but I did.

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So, so we were having some

technical difficulties, but we

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got it worked out and we're here.

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And listeners, I'm so, so grateful

that they stuck around because it has

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been a bit since I've talked about, I.

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Co-parenting and

parenting through divorce.

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And I've got two beautiful

attorneys here with me today.

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I've got Morgan Zo and I've got

Lauren Crane all the way from New

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York City, but, but we all live

the same, you know, the same lives.

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We have the same stories

through through divorce.

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So we're gonna talk a

little bit about, you know.

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Working through things in the summer,

'cause that can get tricky with

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divorce and schedules for kids.

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We're gonna talk about that a little bit,

but before we really get into the nuts and

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bolts of helping kids through the divorce

process, I wanna get to know these.

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Beautiful human beings on the other

side of the screen a little bit better.

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And so I'm just going to let them share

their authentic story that led them to

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help people through these hard times.

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So welcome again.

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Thank you.

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I feel blessed that

you're still here smiling.

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I don't know who wants, who wants

to start with their story as

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to what led them to this work?

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Speaker 2: I'll let Lauren take it.

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Go for it.

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Speaker 3: Okay, great.

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Hi, nice to meet you, Lisa, on Zoom.

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Um, so I have been a

matrimonial lawyer for 22 years.

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I, my father was a matrimonial attorney

and when I was in law school, he

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got me my first job as a matrimonial

attorney, actually a New Jersey and.

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I thought it was exciting.

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I thought it was actually helping people.

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I thought that was nitty gritty.

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You were really helping kids.

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You were helping adults.

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It was a hard time and it was really

a way to use my law degree in a

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positive way, you know, so that people

could move forward and live still

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fruitful lives even after divorce.

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So I have been with my partner for.

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Our other partner who's been on on

the Zoom for a little over 20 years.

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Speaker: Wow.

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Speaker 3: And she trains me and

is an amazing pioneer in this.

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And she was an amazing boss

and then turned into partner.

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And so I've been doing this

mainly with her and it's been

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an incredible experience.

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And Jor and Morgan joined us in 2018.

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Yes.

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Yeah, so we've been working the three of

us as a team since:

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Speaker: So I just noticed, um, you

didn't call yourself a divorce attorney.

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I.

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What's that about?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Lauren,

what is that about?

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Speaker 3: Well, one, we do

more than just divorce, right?

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Yeah.

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So we do preap and we do post

maps, and we do obviously divorce.

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That's our mean practice.

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But you know, I mean, I don't think that.

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You have to label yourself

as a divorce attorney.

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Mm-hmm.

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Right.

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I mean, I do that on a daily basis.

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If anyone asks me what I do, I

say matrimonial and then they

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have no idea what a matrimonial

attorney, and then I say divorce.

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So I get to the, the nasty later.

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But you know, I guess I just try and see

myself as not as the end of something,

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but of the start of something new.

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Yeah.

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So I always think of divorce is the end.

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Speaker: Yep.

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Yep.

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That's how I like to look at it too.

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Okay.

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Lauren, you're kind of the newbie,

but you've been there a while too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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So, um, when I went to law school and

I'm the first lawyer in my family, I went

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rogue on all of us and, and my family.

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Um, and I, as I was going

through law school, actually,

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there was big changes happening.

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Uh, gay marriage was just

about to be legalized.

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Um, and so there was this whole area that

had not really been explored and it was

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helping a whole different demographic of

people that I was really excited about.

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And that was what really

got me interested in it.

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I knew that I wanted to litigate and

I knew I wanted to be with people.

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I didn't just wanna push paper, but I

really wanted to touch people's lives.

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And I couldn't think of a better

way when people need help the most.

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'cause this is the most

chaotic moment, you know?

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We really meet people at their.

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Absolute worst.

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'cause it's emotional.

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You know, people think marriage is

a business, you know, that's what

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they try and make it seem like, oh,

it's just like a business merger.

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And then it, but it's not.

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There's kids, it's life, it's love.

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And you know, it's, um,

it keeps me on my toes.

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And so I enjoy it for that, you know?

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And I also enjoy the fact that there's no.

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Black letter law, everything

is a little bit up for gray.

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And as a lawyer, that gets my

creative juices flowing, right?

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And I get to think of ways to be, you

know, I'm not just saying, well, it

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says X, so this is what it's gonna be.

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No, there's a little nuance to it.

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No divorce is the same.

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I mean, I can't tell you how many times

Lauren and I laugh and we have a client

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come in and be like, oh, I was just

talking to so and so at Starbucks who had

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a divorce and this is exactly how it went.

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And I'm like, great.

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'cause your divorce will

go nothing like that.

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Literally everything you.

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It's just not, it just isn't that way.

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So it's,

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Speaker: yeah, it's so crazy because

I have found too, like, family

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members will start talking to me

like, well, what do I do about this?

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You know, my kids getting a

divorce and I, I have to ponder it.

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And they're like, well, you're the expert.

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You know, how do you not know this?

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It's like everyone is different.

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And I love, I so love to hear.

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The two of you talking about

helping families and about being

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creative because I am about doing

divorce different, and I'm a, I.

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I kinda say like, I'm a recovering

attorney, sorry, I'm more, I'm more of

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a mediator now and we'll call in the,

you know, call in the attorneys to

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work with, but I really love to help

people work together and craft their

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agreement and then they can go get some

representation because I can't advise

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them when I'm helping them, but, and it

is great because you can be creative.

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Through a divorce.

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I have to ask, have you any of

you personally been through any

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of this besides watching your

dad, you know, do this work?

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Have you personally been touched by it?

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Speaker 2: No.

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Not in my family.

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No.

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Speaker: Not in mine either.

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Okay.

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So that's interesting.

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Which

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Speaker 2: is shocking, honestly.

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Speaker: No.

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You wanna know what's really shocking.

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Neither have I, and I've been

married for 34 years, so Yeah.

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But you know, and I, I see, I've been

through hard things and I know how

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to get people through transitions

and you know, like my surgeon

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doesn't have to have had the surgery.

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You know what I mean?

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So I don't feel like I have to apologize.

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For not having gone through it.

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Right.

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So I think that's interesting though

because most people in this field,

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Speaker 2: I actually think that's,

I, I find when we've worked with

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colleagues who have had their own

personal divorce, sometimes they

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get back into that personal mindset.

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Yes.

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And I actually think it does their

clients a disservice because our

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job is to see outside is to be

their logical force to help them not

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think emotional, but get through it.

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Right.

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And I think sometimes people, when

they've had that experience, they go

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back to that, they revert back to that

time in their lives and then they get

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emotionally and then it's impossible.

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'cause you go to the other side, you

want a lawyer because you're like,

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I wanna be able to work this out.

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If I wanted to deal with the other

person, I, we don't need lawyers.

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Right.

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That would be.

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The opposite of this.

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So I actually think it's good for all

of us to have not done that, so we

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can come with those fresh eyes to say.

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This is how we can help

navigate this for you.

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Speaker: Absolutely.

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So that you can keep the calm so that

they're using their prodigy brains.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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That's so tricky when

they're so emotional.

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Well, okay, so let's talk a

little bit about the kiddos.

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'cause they're one of the most

important things to me and to every

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person that I know who's going

through a divorce and has children.

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They are.

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And then comes the house.

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What are they gonna do these days?

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But, um, tell me, summer gets tricky.

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So tell me what you've got going

on, what things work for you, share

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a little bit, give us some insight.

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Make me a better mediator, better at

connecting plans, and help the listeners

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figure out these tricky obstacles too.

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Speaker 3: So I always say I wish school

was 12 months out of the year because

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the transitions can occur from school to

school, which is the best for the kids.

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'cause then the parents are not

interacting between each other.

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But in the summer there's lots more

vacation, there's lots more interaction.

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Some kids go to camp.

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Some kids don't go to camp.

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They're not an as structured of a

day, and it's not the whole time.

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So people have to negotiate who's gonna

get what weeks of vacations or what

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days of vacations, and will people

accommodate a few hours here, a few

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hours there for travel arrangements.

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They also, you know.

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Maybe they don't see their spouse for

two months or their former spouse for two

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months because of school, and the kids

are always transitioning at school, and

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now all of a sudden, every week they have

to see them two or three times a week.

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And you have to explain to your client.

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You can't make every exchange

war of the roses no matter what

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is going on in your divorce,

post-divorce, or whatever is going on.

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You need to be the adult and

your kids need to be protected

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just in like any other situation.

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So you need to keep it under bay.

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Keep the exchanges minimal.

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Make them, you know, if we're working

in New York City, make them with the

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doorman in the lobby of a building.

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Make them easy for kids so it's not

confrontational and it's in public.

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Don't have it be in the front of a

house if you're in the, not in a city.

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Meet at a restaurant and

do the exchanges there.

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Make it as easy as possible so that

your kids are the most comfortable,

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and then it's easy for them to

transition from one home to the

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other home without any fighting.

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That is the most important thing,

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Speaker: right?

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And so it sounds like what's

best for the kids is to not see

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their, their parents fighting.

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So if you can transition at

home and not fight, great.

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But if you can't, then you've

gotta take those extra steps.

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I like, I like those ideas of doing it,

um, in a public place to make it easy.

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'cause it's not easy.

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Speaker 3: And I think it's

also up to the attorney.

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You have to give the parents the

idea to not do it in the home.

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The, the default is everyone thinks

that the exchanges have to be at home.

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Mm-hmm.

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Versus an attorney can say, you

know, maybe uncomfortable if

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one parent's living in the home.

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To go back to the former residents

and do the exchange there.

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Think about a neutral place.

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Your kids like a restaurant.

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You could do it in the parking

lot, and then a parent can take the

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child to breakfast, lunch, dinner,

whatever time the exchange is.

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You have to try and be creative,

make it as easy as possible so

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that it doesn't become heated.

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Speaker: Right.

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Yep.

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That's such a great idea.

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And it is different in New York than

like rural Minnesota or Wisconsin,

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but you still can, you know, figure

out those places, um, to meet.

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Okay.

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Any other tips for summer?

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Besides exchanges?

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Speaker 2: I think it goes along.

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It's not just summer.

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I think summer does breed a lot

more interaction 'cause there's

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a little bit more looseness.

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But I think that we always

advise our clients to.

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Look internally about their part of

the dynamic with their spouse, and I

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think this kind of goes, I mean this

is like what's in vogue now, but I'll

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say it like the let them theory, right?

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Which is like you can't control how

your spouse is going to communicate.

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But you can control your

response and your way that you

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contribute to the back and forth.

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And so we have a lot of conversations

with our client as things are in

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flux, whether vacation or whatever,

how to communicate with them.

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'cause that goes a really

long way in turning down.

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The animosity and the

anxiety around the exchanges.

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Not every single thing has to be a fight.

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I mean, a big thing is FaceTime, right?

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And FaceTime becomes such

an issue in our lives.

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Definitely during, uh, the summer too.

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'cause like their li their days

have changed, so the timings of

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this changes and so the other

spouse doesn't answer or FaceTime.

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We have clients that are

screenshotting sending it, doing this.

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I haven't spoken to my kid in 10 days.

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I haven't done this.

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That's not a productive

way to try to navigate.

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This issue, you know?

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So we try to give them the skillset,

which is maybe make it more structured

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if you were able to do it a little looser

during the, the weekday or whatever,

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because there was more your, the day was

different make, it has to be at this time.

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Exactly.

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And if that time doesn't work,

then the next day you'll call your

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child, and if that day doesn't

work, then we'll figure it out.

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Then you can get the lawyers involved.

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But when you're trying to

argue between each other.

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All that does is create, but then

the phone calls the tension on the

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phone, especially with young kids.

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Mm-hmm.

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You know, daddy hasn't

called you or the a child.

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We just had a client complain today

that the um, child said, daddy, how come

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you haven't called me in a couple days?

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And he would say, in the moment, I've

called you every day, and now the

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child's been involved in this, you know?

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Right.

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And that's not good.

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Speaker: Yep.

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Okay.

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Well, I have to say one thing, Morgan,

I have to say Mel Robbins would be proud

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of you from, but I have to, I have to

tell you too, I'm, I'm so impressed with

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the two of you truly, and listeners,

if you are in New York, you would be

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who I would go to because this is,

this is what is standing out to me.

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I'm also a, a coach now.

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I don't.

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I just use it in my life.

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I use it with my clients.

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But you're using coaching by, you

know, by you are helping your clients

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not to make this into a big, huge feud

and to actually help the children.

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A lot of attorneys have bad reps

and I've seen attorneys who will

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mess up a mediation deal just

because they wanna keep that.

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I'm sorry.

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I am an attorney.

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I love attorneys.

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They're need it.

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But I really love what you're doing and

I love what you're saying about this.

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You're coaching them on

how to communicate better.

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One attorney does that not

any that I know that well.

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So kudos to you.

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That's really different and I hope that

you're advertising that you are different.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we try.

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We, you know, the big thing about our

firm also, which is really special, and

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I really feel lucky every day that I get

to do this with Lauren and with Susan.

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We're a small.

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All women firm, everyone in our firm is

a woman, and we really listen to each

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other in a way that I don't think I

could have ever gotten that experience.

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Mm-hmm.

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And we argue with each other.

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It's not like, yes, men, like, you

know, in another big firm, you might be

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afraid to have an idea or try something.

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We really believe in trying to

get the best for our client.

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Yeah.

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We can make another motion.

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Yeah.

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We can earn whatever money.

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That's not the focus of

how we live our practice.

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We're always trying to get the

best results, and honestly,

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most of the time the best result

is not going through court.

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The court system, you know,

in New York is not perfect.

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Um, uh, it's, it's not perfect.

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There are five judges

for all of Manhattan.

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Which is just, you can imagine the

caseload, the timing is slow and Lauren

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will laugh 'cause I love to litigate.

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That's my favorite part of the job.

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Lauren likes to mediate, but.

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I still want, I'm still coaching them.

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How do I get you out of this faster?

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How do I get you with everything

that's important to you?

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And obviously it's not gonna be

everything, but what's the most important?

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How do we get that for you?

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Speaker: Yeah, and I love that.

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And you were doing that.

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It's shining through just in

talking to you because you are

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coaching them to set it up so that

they don't have to go to court.

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Set up, maybe be more structured

and sometimes they're gonna have to,

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and they've got you if they need it.

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Okay, so we've got a couple of

of good tips here for summer.

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The exchanges we're talking about,

the, the calls, the, the FaceTime

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calls, the kinda let them theory,

that's always so important, right?

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Because what people need to remember is

even if that other parent really sucks,

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just do your best because that is going

to impact the children to have one.

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Great parent that's going to really

help them more than one great

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parent arguing with another parent.

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So, um, do you have any other, it

doesn't even have to be summer tips, but

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tips to help people co-parent better?

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So I,

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Speaker 3: I think that what

gets lost is divorce is the short

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snippet of a person's life, even

if it's a two to five year process.

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After everyone's focused on when their

kids are young or maybe they're teenagers

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and through the divorce process, and

what they forget is, is this is the same

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person who I'm gonna have to parent with.

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For the of these kids' lives.

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Even if your child is emancipated,

your kids can have issues well into

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their thirties and forties, right?

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You that you're still gonna be the only

parent for this person, and you have to

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learn, even if you don't like that person

anymore, how to get along with them.

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You're gonna have weddings, you're

gonna have babies, you're gonna have ba,

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grand babies, baby showers, everything.

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You have to teach your clients when

they're with you on how to treat the other

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parent, like Morgan was saying, and how

to take it forward, go through issues that

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they could confront, such as, what are

you gonna do when your kids get married?

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Don't you wanna be able to sit at the

same wedding, you know, or a Sweet

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16 party or any other big event.

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You, you have to get your client to look

forward, so maybe they would sacrifice a

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little bit financially to end the case.

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What clients don't understand is that

every dollar that you may save or spend

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during divorce, you may not actually

be saving in any settlement because

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you're gonna get rid of attorneys and

we're expensive and settling a case.

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It's so much more beneficial to the

person and to the children because you're

382

:

never getting your years back, right?

383

:

So if you're gonna wind up spending

five years litigating this case,

384

:

you're losing five years to litigation,

which is draining and has an

385

:

effect on everybody's personality,

and you just have to remember.

386

:

That if you settle, you have to

think forward thinking, maybe

387

:

'cause you're so angry and you're

going through this divorce, you

388

:

can't meet the next person, right?

389

:

Yeah.

390

:

So keep forward thinking,

stop looking back.

391

:

Yes.

392

:

When you go to trial, you

have to only look back.

393

:

You have to look back and prove your

evidence and so forth and so on.

394

:

But if you're gonna settle, think

about how you can move forward

395

:

best for you and your children.

396

:

Speaker: I love that, and I always say,

my listeners have heard this, how you end

397

:

one thing is how you begin another, so.

398

:

Work on yourself.

399

:

Work on yourself like nuts,

because that is what is going

400

:

to give you a better life.

401

:

It's going to figure out, get a coach,

get a therapist, get someone who can help

402

:

you so that you can handle that parent,

because like you said, you are connected

403

:

to them for the rest of your life.

404

:

You are and you don't want it to be

icky and you want to have a better

405

:

life after divorce and carrying all

that isn't really gonna get you there.

406

:

I have to ask you one question.

407

:

I'm just so curious.

408

:

How long does it take to

get divorced in New York?

409

:

Speaker 2: I.

410

:

That is the million dollar question.

411

:

Um, and honestly, it

really, really depends.

412

:

Um, the New York courts just

had, uh, the matrimonial part

413

:

just had a major overhaul.

414

:

We have four new judges, um, and only

one that's been there for a while.

415

:

And so they are picking up pieces

from other, from other judges.

416

:

And so things have never really.

417

:

Caught up from COVID.

418

:

I mean, it, it, it's, you know, if

you are, if you are litigating both

419

:

finances and custody, it could take you

even two years to even get to a trial

420

:

Speaker: really on custody.

421

:

Speaker 3: On just custody.

422

:

Very rarely do you do custody and

finances in New York at the same time.

423

:

So it could take.

424

:

Two years to get to a custody

trial and then another two to

425

:

three to get to a financial trial.

426

:

Speaker 2: And that's in Manhattan.

427

:

Some courts do.

428

:

Westchester has done, we, we just

did one in Westchester where they

429

:

did it, but the, at part of it, we

weren't getting full trial days.

430

:

So we would get, we, we would be

scheduled for a full trial day.

431

:

We would sit there for a trial

day, but we'd be kept getting

432

:

pulled out for other cases.

433

:

So we would get maybe an hour in the

morning, maybe two, and then have to

434

:

keep doing that until the trial was done.

435

:

Um, so.

436

:

It's, it, it's a really

unfortunately long process.

437

:

Speaker: Okay.

438

:

So, and I'm, so, this isn't like people

around me don't have that issue, but

439

:

for those poor, you know, residents

in New York, they're kind of in limbo.

440

:

I mean, how, like it is hard to be

in the midst of a divorce and trying

441

:

to figure out how you're gonna pay

for, so what do people do if it's

442

:

two years that they're sitting there?

443

:

Speaker 2: So they'll, there'll be

what we call in your pendente decision.

444

:

So temporary during the pendency

of the action decisions.

445

:

But, so if you are the recipient, if

you're the money spouse and you're

446

:

the recipient of a very expensive

award, and you don't think that that

447

:

award is the right award, because

the court can consider differ

448

:

factors during the pendency and then

has to consider different factors

449

:

when they decide the final award.

450

:

Okay?

451

:

Uh, you are stuck with that award.

452

:

Until you get to a trial, even if

you're the non-money spouse and

453

:

you're not happy with it, it's

really hard to modify something.

454

:

So you might get a decision on

that interim amount in the, in the

455

:

first six months, but then that's

what's carrying you forward for the,

456

:

until the divorce, until the trial.

457

:

Yeah.

458

:

Speaker: Wow.

459

:

That's tricky.

460

:

Speaker 2: So like what makes it even

more difficult for us to resolve cases

461

:

is like if the award is really, really

generous and everyone knows it's really,

462

:

really generous, it's really hard to

walk it back and, and the person's just

463

:

sitting there taking that even though

they have counsel fees, even though

464

:

they know other things are happening.

465

:

But you can't say, okay, but we

know the court's not gonna do that.

466

:

So like, let's walk, let's try to

come to the table and figure it out.

467

:

And it's hard when you

have those types of awards.

468

:

Um, in New York also the, there's

a rebuttable presumption that the

469

:

money spouse, the contributes to

the non-money spouse counsel fees.

470

:

Um, and so those, so sometimes the

non-money spouse doesn't have an

471

:

incentive to end the divorce because

they're not paying their own legal fees.

472

:

So, you know, that old fashioned

having skin in the game, which

473

:

everyone really needs to come and be

honest and fair is not always there.

474

:

So we have some challenges.

475

:

Yeah.

476

:

You know, to get it

477

:

Speaker 3: done.

478

:

I'm gonna give you the flip side though,

because we've also had cases where our

479

:

client is the non moneyed spouse and

they're not getting sufficient money

480

:

and support, and then they are forced.

481

:

Right, because it's not changing.

482

:

And if you're on this road and you

have no access to investment accounts

483

:

or the cash, you know, that's in one

person's name or it's in joint names

484

:

and the banks, you know, won't liquidate

those funds due to an ongoing divorce

485

:

proceeding, they could be crunched

and have to settle for less than they.

486

:

Deserved in saying, because they

just have to finish this to be

487

:

able to move on with their lives.

488

:

So the problem with a long, and

also it'll take a long time to

489

:

get to a custody award, right?

490

:

So these people are fighting over

custody, could be two to three

491

:

years before you get, that's

492

:

Speaker: crazy.

493

:

I mean, how, how do those

families, how do they survive

494

:

on the temporary, they're just.

495

:

Speaker 3: They just go, there's

nothing we can, there's literally

496

:

you can't, speedy trial is your best.

497

:

That's what the Appell division says.

498

:

Speaker: Are you, are the two of you doing

a lot of mediations to help people come to

499

:

a, you know, like a kind of col like in,

in Minnesota, I'm not part of it anymore.

500

:

They have like collaborative

law, which some people.

501

:

There's good and there's

the good and the bad.

502

:

A lot of them are my friends,

so I'm not gonna say,

503

:

but um, you know, I'm just

thinking in your case.

504

:

Where the courts are so full, it

would really be a ripe place to have

505

:

someone help them come to an agreement.

506

:

You know, if they're each

represented by an attorney.

507

:

Do you do that?

508

:

Speaker 3: So I'm actually a trans

mediator and I am court appointed sometime

509

:

as a mediator, and I love mediation.

510

:

I like being the mediator.

511

:

The problem is it takes so

long for parties a lot of

512

:

times to get to mediation.

513

:

They're at that point, you know, to,

they've had litigation fatigue, so

514

:

sometimes they know too much and they're

too tired to actually really engage.

515

:

So I prefer to get the case in

mediation right from the get go.

516

:

Amen.

517

:

It's very

518

:

Speaker: easy.

519

:

Amen.

520

:

In fact, I stopped taking.

521

:

People who have gone through and

are court appointed, I can't do it.

522

:

I used to volunteer.

523

:

I'm like, I can't do it anymore.

524

:

It's so hard, um, to work

with them after all of that.

525

:

But when they come to me right from

the beginning, oh, magic can happen.

526

:

Not always.

527

:

Sometimes.

528

:

Sometimes you gotta like, okay,

you need to be represented

529

:

and this isn't gonna work.

530

:

But a lot of times it can work and it

sounds like New York could use that.

531

:

Speaker 2: It exists here.

532

:

And I think what we always try to

do is we always work on two tracks.

533

:

Like even if they come into us and they're

not in the me, the mindset to settle right

534

:

away, we're like, let's just talk to us

what a settlement would look like for you.

535

:

So as we're getting to know the

client, as we're getting the discovery

536

:

that we need, we're starting to put

together something for them to look at.

537

:

It is often our.

538

:

Initiative to then say, Hey,

what do you think about maybe

539

:

throwing this out as a proposal?

540

:

Like we will start that even if the

court proceeding is going, we're

541

:

always trying to say, Hey, why don't

we take a look at what's happening

542

:

now You, you wanted the court.

543

:

You see how the court goes like, yeah,

now maybe, why don't we look at this?

544

:

You know, why don't we think about this?

545

:

And we are often, you know.

546

:

I, I would say, and I would say this is

probably true for our field in a whole,

547

:

like I think a lot of cases get to a

trial stage and then we'll settle it

548

:

before our trial's really complete, right?

549

:

Say that's just the

reality of where we live.

550

:

Speaker: I, I, and again, I can't

say this enough, I love how the two

551

:

of you, you're kind of mediating.

552

:

You want them to negotiate that you

are the kind of attorneys that I like

553

:

to find because you are the ones that

don't blow it up and go, well, you

554

:

know, 'cause I tell 'em, I know the law.

555

:

I tell them, you, you go to an

attorney, you could fight for this.

556

:

And I'll tell both of 'em.

557

:

You could get this, but let's

you know, how do you wanna do it?

558

:

What works the.

559

:

Speaker 3: I also say in mediation

always, so if you want an additional

560

:

$50,000, how much are you gonna

pay your attorney to give you that?

561

:

Speaker: Yep.

562

:

Speaker 3: And you always, and I say

that to my clients as well, right?

563

:

How much do you want to pay

me to get to that end goal?

564

:

So I think it's a really important

question that attorneys always

565

:

have to remind their clients,

because clients sometimes forget

566

:

that attorney's fees are real.

567

:

They're a real factor when

determining whether to settle.

568

:

And you know, we're in New York City,

attorney's fees are very expensive and.

569

:

It could be a real asset.

570

:

You know, you may give up something,

but you don't have to see me anymore.

571

:

Speaker: Yeah, you are, you are.

572

:

Your firm is a diamond in the rough.

573

:

I'm not kidding.

574

:

Like I never, I didn't anticipate

this when talking with you.

575

:

I love it.

576

:

I mean, I would, I would practice law

in New York with you because I love

577

:

what you're doing and I, listeners, I

hope that you do hear this and go there.

578

:

Tell me, are there a lot of

colleagues like you in New York?

579

:

Speaker 2: Y you know, it's an

unfortunate field that we practice in

580

:

and you know, there are some wonderful

people who are on the same page.

581

:

We are like, we can fight like hell,

like we have to, but know when it is

582

:

time to get these people to a resolution,

help this family really see that.

583

:

But then there's also the people

who, you know, almost are, feel like

584

:

they're in their own divorce, you know?

585

:

And amp it even more than it needs to be.

586

:

And every email communication

is nasty and every interaction

587

:

is is, you know, not pleasant.

588

:

And it's unfortunate because, you know,

we're technically on the same team in

589

:

that like, we gotta get this family from.

590

:

Point A to point B, they

wanna be in point B, right?

591

:

Maybe it looks a little different,

but they wanna be there, so

592

:

how do we get them there?

593

:

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

594

:

Speaker 2: And you know, it's, it's, it's,

um, I don't know if it's just the nature

595

:

of what we do, that that brings that

out in people, but that's the reality.

596

:

Speaker: I love it.

597

:

And, and I wanna say too, I

totally agree with you that

598

:

sometimes there is a time to fight.

599

:

There are, there are those cases

where, yep, you're gonna, there's

600

:

nothing else that you can do but fight.

601

:

Overall, I find, especially if you

have two willing participants Yeah.

602

:

Who don't, you know, and you keep, and

I, I love what you're talking about.

603

:

I love what you stand for.

604

:

I wanna scream it from

the rooftops of New York.

605

:

So that people know what you're doing

because it's pretty amazing and I

606

:

love it, and my heart goes out to you

and I'm, I feel even more blessed to

607

:

have spoken with both of you today.

608

:

I so appreciate you joining

me on Zoom, which is weird and

609

:

different because went down on me.

610

:

I'm not sure what happened there,

but I, I really appreciate you.

611

:

I appreciate what you're doing.

612

:

We're gonna have your information in

the show notes, but I wanna know how do

613

:

people find you if they need some help?

614

:

Speaker 3: So the name of the

firm is Bender and Crane, and our

615

:

website is bender and cream.com.

616

:

Bender crane.com.

617

:

There's no ampersand.

618

:

Um.

619

:

And we're both, uh, members of

the American Academy and we're

620

:

both, uh, matrimonial lawyers

and we're both on super lawyers.

621

:

So you can find us very many ways.

622

:

You can Google us.

623

:

I'm sure we both come up.

624

:

Morgan may be a little more of a

easier find based on our last name.

625

:

There's lots of Lauren Cranes

I've learned since I got married.

626

:

20 years, you know.

627

:

There's, you can find us.

628

:

We're everywhere.

629

:

Speaker: Yep.

630

:

And you can, you can get in

touch with me and like I said,

631

:

it will be in the show notes.

632

:

So listeners, if you're in New York

City, go, if you are listening to

633

:

this, there've been great tips.

634

:

You can do this a better way, you

can help your children through this.

635

:

And I'm talking to attorneys,

I'm talking to mediators, and I'm

636

:

talking to people going through it.

637

:

So I so appreciate you too.

638

:

Thank you so much for being here.

639

:

Speaker 3: Lisa, thank

640

:

Speaker: Awesome.

641

:

Speaker 3: Thank you so much.

642

:

You too.

Listen for free

Show artwork for Doing Divorce Different
A Podcast Guide to Doing Divorce Differently

About the Podcast

Doing Divorce Different A Podcast Guide to Doing Divorce Differently
Divorce, co-parenting, menopause, marriage, and starting over after 40—Doing Divorce Different is your guide to a healthy, faith filled life transition.

Hosted by Family Law Attorney and Mediator Lesa Koski, Doing Divorce Different is a candid, empowering podcast designed to take the fear out of divorce and guide you toward peace—whether you’re navigating a split, working to stay married, or rebuilding a better life after a major transition. Each week, Lesa brings heart-centered legal insight, emotional support, and holistic wisdom to help you heal, grow, and thrive.

We cover everything from amicable divorce and co-parenting strategies to parenting plans that actually work and support kids in thriving through change. You’ll learn how to prepare for marriage with prenups, revisit your relationship with post-nuptial agreements, and understand what it really takes to stay married or rekindle love after a rough season. If you're in the midst of a grey divorce, wondering how to not get divorced, or questioning whether love can be found again, this show is for you.

Lesa also explores the emotional and physical changes that often accompany midlife and major life shifts. From navigating the impact of menopause on your health, marriage, and mood, to dealing with the loneliness that can come after divorce or empty nesting, you’ll find honest conversations that don’t shy away from real-life challenges. And for those of you in your 40s, 50s, or beyond, you’ll discover what it means to truly build a better life after 40.

Health and wellness are deeply integrated into this journey. Lesa shares insights on the benefits of rest, joy, nutrition, fasting, protein, and bone health, along with the power of movement, community, and exercise to support mental clarity and physical strength. You’ll learn how to take care of yourself with intention—because healing isn’t just emotional, it’s also biological.

Mindset work and self-coaching are recurring tools offered in episodes to help you reframe your story and shift from fear to freedom. And through it all, the show honors the role of faith, spiritual surrender, and letting God lead you through every season. Whether you're leaning into your relationship with God for the first time or deepening a lifelong practice, you’ll hear how surrender can bring peace even in the hardest moments.

You’ll hear real stories from people who have done divorce differently, saved their marriages, or found new love and purpose on the other side. Lesa also brings in conversations about marriages that have stood the test of time, co-parenting through complex seasons, and the realities of parenting after separation while maintaining stability for your kids.

This is not just a podcast about divorce. Doing Divorce Different is about taking back your life, rewriting your future, and trusting that you’re not starting over, you’re starting better. If you’re craving practical advice, soul-level encouragement, and real conversations about creating a healthy, joyful, purpose-driven life, you’ve found your community.

Subscribe now and join Lesa Koski for weekly episodes that will help you grow stronger in your relationships, your health, and your faith, no matter where you’re starting from.

About the Host:
I’ve spent over 25 years helping families navigate amicable divorce as a lawyer and mediator, always focused on protecting what matters most—your kids and your peace of mind. But my mission has expanded. Today, I support women over 40 not just through endings, but in building stronger relationships—and sometimes even saving their marriages. I’m a breast cancer survivor, a cowgirl at heart, a wellness advocate, and a follower of Jesus. My life and faith fuel my passion for helping women thrive.

About your host

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Lesa Koski