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Published on:

22nd Apr 2025

Putting Kids First: Amicable Divorce & Co-Parenting with Dr. Becky

In this episode, Lesa Koski is joined by Dr. Becky, a family and marriage therapist with personal experience in divorce and co-parenting. They discuss the adversarial nature of the family law process and the importance of pursuing amicable divorces for the well-being of children. Becky shares insights on how to manage co-parenting post-divorce, the psychological effects of divorce on children, and the complexities of blended families. The conversation emphasizes putting children's needs first and avoiding negative influences from friends and family. Dr. Becky also presents her approach of therapists managing amicable divorce processes to help families navigate this challenging time more smoothly.

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

00:38 Discussing Divorce and Parenting

01:19 Challenges in the Family Law Process

02:24 The Importance of Amicable Divorce

03:36 Personal Experiences and Advice

14:39 Impact of Divorce on Children

16:12 Blended Families and Stepparent Dynamics

21:16 Concluding Thoughts and Advice

Mentioned in this episode:

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Transcript
Speaker:

Welcome listeners.

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Well, we're back.

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I've got Dr.

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Becky back here with me.

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I, Becky, I felt like I

couldn't stop talking to you,

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Speaker 2: I keep looking for a podcaster

who will just do a life marathon with me.

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Speaker: Oh man.

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Speaker 2: morning every day

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Speaker: No, I love it.

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Because when you brought up too,

how like sometimes divorce stages

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can kind of be like cancer.

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I'm like, Ooh.

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I mean, that's like kitten.

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I, I have another podcast called

Saddle Up Live, where I'm probably

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gonna take the things I've learned

from you about divorce mm-hmm.

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And do a solo and talk about cancer.

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That's awesome.

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Interestingly enough.

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Yeah.

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So I love that.

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But today, on doing divorce different,

we're gonna talk about parenting.

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No one better to ask Becky than you.

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You're, you're a doctor, you're

a family, a marriage therapist.

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I love how you are a therapist

and you coach people.

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You have been divorced with

children, you have lived it.

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Can you talk a little bit

about how that went for you?

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And can you, I always want this podcast

to be real, but I want it to help

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people be less afraid, and that's

always my client's number one concern.

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I mean, the house is a little bit of

a concern these days, but those kids

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and how this is gonna affect their

children, so how can they do it right.

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Speaker 2: I think, you know, one

of my pet peeves is the family law

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process is acrimonious and adversarial.

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And so I've had many clients say that

they want an amicable divorce, but

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once you hire the acrimonious lawyer.

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You're all but preventing that.

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And so I am very, disgusted with the

family law process and the fact that

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they don't mind ripping your partner

apart and scaring them to death to

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get you the best settlement deal.

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But they don't consider

that you are a family.

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You will always be a family,

and you're going to have to work

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together to co-parent these children

over the long term so they're not

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thinking about the effects on family.

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Just thinking about the immediate

benefits of getting you a good deal,

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Speaker: can

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Speaker 2: just destroys the relationship

that we need to have cooperative.

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Speaker: Amen.

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And I have a really reasonable

course on my website, and

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it's a parenting plan course.

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Couples, no matter where you live,

you can go through this parenting

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plan and begin your divorce process

by working on this together.

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it's gonna help you think of things

you're not gonna think of, maybe

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if they're little for the future.

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It just brings things to mind that

you can talk about beforehand.

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I love to do it amicably if you can.

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I know that sometimes you can't, but I

know that children need both parents.

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But when you're talking about this court

system, you know, even the people that

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I helped through a mediation, the child

support laws are set up so that you pay

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by the amount of overnights you have.

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Speaker 3: So

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Speaker: that means dad

who's traveling like nuts.

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Is just going to do everything he can to

have more overnights with the children.

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Not because it's best for

the the kids, but because the

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payment isn't gonna be as high.

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And I don't like that.

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I don't like that it's set up that

way because that isn't probably most

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beneficial to the kids in all scenarios.

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I do think both parents are really

important to the children and I have all

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kinds of resources and blogs and podcasts.

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So it is so dear to my heart, but I wanna

hear it from you who's been through it and

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you were, went through it with kind of a

controlling guy in Texas, which is tough.

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Speaker 2: A fearful guy too, and

who, and he'd go to work and his

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guy friends would warn him that I

was getting ready to take all his

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money and I was gonna wipe him out.

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And so they would really, and his

family would, you know, vent, I

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would say contemptuous toward me.

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And their conversations was just get

rid of his, you know, like, no, no

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conversations about maybe you ought

to find a way to work this out.

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You know, people were really, and that's

why one of my things that I coach people

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on is to ignore the negative choir in

your life when you're contemplating

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divorce and going through it.

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Because I, I think that, that these

people are, aren't in your life.

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They don't know what's going on.

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Being ridiculous and immature.

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And I think you should listen to people

who are friends of the marriage and

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who really want you to have the freedom

to save a marriage or fix a marriage

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or, go through an amicable process.

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So yes, there are really difficult

personalities that are not candidates

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for the amicable divorce process and

that, I hate to say that, but it's true.

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Speaker 3: They

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Speaker 2: just won't be cooperative,

they won't be reasonable.

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And there's just personalities like that.

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But what I learned is that although

some of my good clients, who

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are getting a divorce wanted an

amicable divorce process, they

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really didn't know how to do it.

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So they would go hire lawyers and

enter into the adversarial process.

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And so I was like, wait a minute.

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You know, therapists can cradle couples

during this time, and instead of them

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hiring lawyers when they decide to

divorce, the therapist can manage

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an amicable divorce for them and

oversee it and coach them through it.

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We're gonna negotiate everything we

possibly can and agree on with, with

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both parents, with the therapist.

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And so, and then when you get to

the part where you need to have it

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checked legally and make sure that the

complicated things like health insurance

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and pension plans and stuff, or you

know, you might need to hire a forensic

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accountant or you might need, but

you've gotta get people who are neutral.

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If you need a children's advocate, you

need to hire neutral people, not somebody

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that's on your side or your spouse's side.

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And then you hire collaborative

lawyers instead of.

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The adversarial family, lawyers

and collaborative lawyers make sure

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you're not gonna litigate things.

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Everything is negotiated.

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There's no nasty letters, no things

calling you names or threatening

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you to take your children away.

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And everybody really has the

family's best interests at heart.

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so I have begun, being a amicable

divorce manager as an added thing

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in my field because we need it.

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We need it.

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Speaker: I love what you're saying because

I'm an attorney, but I don't act as one.

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You know, when I work with my

client, I give legal information.

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So when people come to me, we do the

divorce paperwork, but I'm not giving

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them, I'm telling them legal information,

but I'm not giving them any advice.

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If they want advice, they've gotta

go out and get counsel for that.

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But as you're talking, I'm thinking,

gosh, there really could be a need

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for what you are saying you're doing.

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And not to mention, even if you needed

a mediator who has a legal background,

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I think that could be helpful for any

state where I could come in and I could

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go, let's go through the spreadsheet,

let's bring this to the attorney.

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Because this is what you're really

gonna need to show in court.

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Mm-hmm.

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Sure.

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Speaker 2: you're talking, there's

a, there's a place for attorneys

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at some point just to make sure

you're following what the law says.

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And I want both people to get the

best deal they can for themselves.

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Right.

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You know, it's about survival, you

know, and so, some of the men will say,

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well, you know, I made $10 million.

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Becky and I, I don't think I

should have to give her half.

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And I'm going like, let me tell you,

just give it, you know, give it to her

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like she's, she's entitled to it by law.

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It just, let's just not even spend

thousands of dollars argue for this.

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Just when you're gonna end

up in the same boat anyway.

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It's a bitter pill.

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I get it.

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So let's just do it.

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It's the right thing.

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Here's the other thing is

if you try to rookie do.

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Your kid's parent in a divorce and

try to leave them destitute and try to

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starve them out and do, you know, make

'em go live in a much lesser place.

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Yeah, like, like you and I talked

about how in Texas the divorce laws

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are so horrible for the dependent.

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spouse.

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And so if they're married to someone

successful, their lifestyle's going

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to change overnight financially.

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Well, if the successful parent allows

that spouse to be thrown under the bus

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in that way, the kids will resent you.

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They will see it's the, Taj Mahal

at your house and barely getting by

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and struggling at mom's house, and

that's because you didn't support

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her in a fair divorce deal that she

could have gotten in any other state.

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Speaker: I love how your bringing

the children and their best interest

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to mine into this thought process

because I am blessed with clients.

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Who think that way.

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Like they think, well, I don't want

mom to not have a bedroom for, you

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know, I don't want the kids to be

desolate when they're with mom.

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But I never, even in all the years that

I've been doing this and all the work

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that I've done with children, thought

about how that looks to the kids.

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And I think that is something that

will make me better at what I do when

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I can bring that up to the parents.

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Speaker 2: a good point.

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and it actually happened with my

children, you know, and so tell

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me about that a little bit, Becky.

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And it was like, you know, their dad was,

you know, he's mean, he and he, he's like,

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I'm paying you X child support and you

got half of whatever we had when we got

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a divorce, which wasn't that much 'cause

he was new in his career at the time.

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and he's like, beyond that, screw you.

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I'm not helping, I'm not gonna pay,

you know, I'm not gonna contribute.

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So when it came time to buy the kids cars.

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You know, he would not

help me buy them a car.

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I had to pay for all their car insurance.

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I remember one, you know, on my,

and I was in school at the time.

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I was barely getting by, struggling,

paying for my education and trying to

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pay for a house and, and I couldn't

pick 'em up from school because I was

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working and because I was, in school.

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And so, I'd go, please, would you just

go half with me and buy him a car?

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I ain't doing, it's what

he'd say, I ain't doing it.

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and I'd go, well, don't you

need the convenience of the

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kids driving themselves around?

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Well, he had remarried.

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He goes, Theresa will pick 'em up, And

I was just like, and the kids see this.

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They saw that I went into

huge debt to buy them both.

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Little cars.

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So that I could continue working

and continue going to school and

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not have to pick them up, you know?

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And so it's just, they

resented him for it.

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And I heard both of them talk,

contemptuously about what a tight

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wad he was after the divorce.

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And we nicknamed him Dr.

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No 'cause he's a doctor.

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And anything we asked

him, the answer was no.

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But you know, they were my teachers

because they're the ones that

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taught me that it caused them

to stress that it caused them.

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and he was very tight with them too.

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And.

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they felt like they were the poor

little rich kids because everybody knew.

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He made tons of money as

an orthopedic surgeon.

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I mean, he was super successful and he had

this deal where he was gonna act like he

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was, middle class or lower middle class

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And yet he lived in a fancy neighborhood

and took the kids, to the school where all

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the kids' parents were very successful.

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But, my kids would be like 13 years old

and say to their dads, Hey dad, can we go

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shopping Get 'em yourself, go get a job.

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So this attitude with me and just

with them was very injurious to

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Speaker: So how did you help your kids?

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Because I know that I've heard.

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not to like talk down the other parent.

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Oh, sure.

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With your children.

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So how do you don't talk about 'em at

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Speaker 2: You don't

talk about 'em at all?

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No.

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You don't say good things

or bad things about them.

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Just don't talk about them except

they're picking you up at three.

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That's it.

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Speaker: Okay.

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What about when they come to you and

say, mom, dad's not paying for this.

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Speaker 2: need to talk

about that with your dad.

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Speaker: That's so perfect.

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And then that gives them the

strength to become resilient.

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Speaker 2: Nope.

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It's never healthy in any family

relationship to have middlemen.

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Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: We have to teach people

that when they have problems, they

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have to advocate for themselves.

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Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, I would tell

'em, like, tell 'em like, I'm, you

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know, I'm so sorry about that, but

you need to take that up with him.

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And if you need something that I can get

you, we'll talk about that, you know?

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Mm-hmm.

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But, but yeah, you have him go

straight back to the horse's mouth.

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Now, I empathized with him and

validated him sometimes that,

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you know, he was unreasonable.

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But it's funny because I, you know,

you're not supposed to tell your kids,

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bad things about your spouse, but if

you just keep your mouth shut, they'll

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come home one day and say, and my kids

came home one day and said, mom, we

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think we know why you divorced dad.

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Because they started experiencing

the same unreasonableness.

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And unwillingness to talk about things

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Speaker: that I did.

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And what I want listeners to know

is I also have a lot of clients

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who do work together, right.

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And they do support each other and

kind of like, it's kind of like the

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business of raising your kids, right?

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So they can work together and those

are the kids who really do well,

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of course, but you don't have a

choice if your spouse is a dick

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or a tight wad or whatever it is.

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I like what you're saying, but can

you just, for the listeners, like,

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just give us a few little tid like

how, how does divorce affect kids?

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I mean, it's hard for 'em, right?

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Speaker 2: the most commonly

diagnosed mental disorder that there

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is is called adjustment disorder.

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They actually, in the last DSM four,

which is our diagnostic manual, change

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the name of adjustment disorder.

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But I think adjustment disorder

pretty much says it all.

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Any adjustment that a human being has

to make, whether positive, negative,

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neutral is stressful on the human system.

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divorce is a situation where

there's not just one change.

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There's Dozens of changes.

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And so there is no way that this

is not going to cause stress and

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suffering for every member of the

family, including the children.

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Now, if the parents don't get

along, that is going to make

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it an exponential problem.

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And the way kids are, is kids

sort of make their parents

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their higher power in a way, so

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Speaker 3: mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: So the kids will blame

themselves for, you know, like if,

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for most of it, if not all of it.

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And so they'll sit there and be

stoic and try to act like, oh,

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Everything's okay here, but you may

notice that their grades plummet or

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they start isolating themselves or

things like that you know, so they're

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everything about a new place to live.

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maybe a new neighborhood,

a new loss of friends.

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There's so many different things that

could be going on in an adjustment for

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a child, but where I just go crazy is

when, let's say dad was having an affair

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and he's immediately moving on to this

new woman who has children, and he starts

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bringing his kids around this new person

and the children, and he's forcing it.

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He's, got this Brady Bunch image in

his head, but he's not taking into

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consideration that the original

biological family of mom and dad and

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the kids is always going to be, a unit.

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and the kids are part of this unit,

and if he's gonna go over here

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and create a new unit, when his

kid goes over there, they're going

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to be feeling like an outsider.

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Okay?

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And so, this is one of the huge

struggles for kids in divorce is,

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is called being a stuck outsider.

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And lots of times dad forces the

kid to hang out with the stepmom

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and go do things with them.

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kids should not be forced

to do these things.

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They should be.

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able to stay home and stay away from it

if they don't want to be a part of it.

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So, the stepmom is gonna feel

like a stuck outsider to the

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original biological family.

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there's all sorts of trauma events

that are just waiting to happen and

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blended and stepfamily things because,

you know, depending on, you know, are

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you gonna force your kid to blend into

this deal, which is going to make their

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experience horrible and miserable?

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Are you gonna let them.

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Right?

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We should not force them to

accept the new stepmom, the

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new stepdad, the new situation.

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We need to respect their space and

how they're feeling about it and be

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empathetic and sympathetic to them.

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Speaker: Well, and I think, Becky,

what's hard about that is if one parent

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believes that and the other one doesn't,

and so you've got these two counter,

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and I will say, and I can't remember, I

feel bad, I don't remember who gave me

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this advice, but they said, with your

children, have them write a list of

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everything that's going to stay the same.

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Like sit down with them

and go, you've got mom.

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I'm gonna take care of you.

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You're going to the same school,

whatever it is, and you'll find that

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there's a lot, and I can't remember

if she said to, to write it down

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before you sat with 'em, just so they

could feel a little bit grounded.

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Mm-hmm.

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But I think Becky, what is hard is when

you don't have a spouse that believes like

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you do, because stepfamilies are hard.

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Speaker 2: Oh,

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Speaker: there's

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Speaker 2: no doubt.

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Speaker: Right.

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So I guess what I tell my parents, you

they, if having one good functional

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parent is way more beneficial

for a child than even having.

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One that's with a messed up person.

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Speaker 3: now.

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Speaker: Right.

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So it's still better.

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Your kids are still gonna be better off

like you Becky, when you're raising them.

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'cause you got them alone for that time.

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Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker: It's more beneficial

for those kids than it would

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have been if you would've stayed.

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Speaker 2: If you've got one great

parent, you know, they're, that's gonna

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be their angel, their savior, their ace

in the whole, the thing about blended

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families too is like many times the

stepmom's or stepdads come in and they

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have different belief and value systems.

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They try to inflict upon the

children, which is never Okay.

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And they sometimes they won't let them

love their other parent I know my kid's

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dad wouldn't let them put my picture

up in their bedroom at his house.

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you need to let your kids still

love and adore the other parent.

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people go, well, how long is it

gonna take my kid to adjust to

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the new step family situation?

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Well, maybe never.

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Speaker: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: Keep that in mind

that some kids never feel

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comfortable in that situation.

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Right.

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Okay.

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and I had a psychologist tell

me one time that if it happens,

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it's at least five years.

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But I can't find the research

that on that, that he was telling

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me about, I think that we need

to be more realistic about that.

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You know, I have plenty of adult

children, like they're in their

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forties and fifties now, whose mom

and dad are married to somebody else.

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And they cry in my office about

feeling like an outsider to

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their parent now and left out.

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And then when one of them dies, let's

say your dad dies, and the stepmom

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then is not fair in the distribution

of dad's keepsakes and whatnot.

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Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: And I've had people just

cry and cry and cry about these things.

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So these things, you know what I'm

saying is like, if you have a blended

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family and you're writing your will,

for example, make sure that your

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child is going to be included fair and

square with maybe your new children,

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because it's so traumatizing when you

treat 'em like a second class citizen.

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Speaker: Amen.

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Amen.

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And so, okay, so I think we're

gonna end it there, but I definitely

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am gonna have you back on because

there's so much more to talk about.

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But kind of what I've gleaned from

this is for parents to be aware.

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That this is hard for your kids.

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Yeah.

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Be aware of that and how they are

going to feel responsible and maybe

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shut down and not talk about it.

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And you know what, isn't it funny,

Becky, how, like you were saying before,

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how we don't, like, we don't talk

about when our marriage is failing.

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We don't talk about it with the

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'cause they're important

to me and I need them.

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I say I need you and I need,

you know, whatever it is.

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But children need to learn that.

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And I think what I've learned is that

if you are going through something

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like this, sit down and there's tools,

you know, I've got documentaries

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that you can watch, but sit down

and say, I know this might be hard.

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Some children feel like this and

this and this, you know, and just

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open it up so that they can start

talking about it so they're not 40

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and 50 and beginning to deal with it.

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Learning how to deal with it

now I think would be amazing.

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Speaker 2: The other thing is

I really believe, you know,

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children don't want divorce.

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Most of 'em, but 90 plus

percent don't want divorce.

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It's something the parent wants

and it's foisted upon the child.

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And the child are gonna try

to be good sports about it.

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they'll throw themselves under the

bus for their parents for sure.

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I really believe if you choose to

inflict this upon them, and maybe you

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should, maybe it's the best thing.

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But still, I would love to see parents,

especially for an extended period

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of time after through the divorce

and after to put the kids first.

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Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: them raised and put your

folk, they want alone time with you.

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They don't wanna be hanging out

with your girlfriend or boyfriend.

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They want alone time with you.

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And to just focus on them and

making 'em feel loved and adored.

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That is a huge thing, is so many

kids feel left in the lurch.

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Yeah.

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You know?

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It's so important to love 'em

even more and pay attention to

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'em even more during this process.

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Yeah.

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Speaker: Yeah.

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It's such a great place

to, to leave this episode.

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I mean, we've talked through

so many things in, in these two

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episodes about loving yourself.

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And loving your children and letting

them know that they're adored that love.

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I mean, it's all about the love.

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Yes.

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I'm gonna let you go and I want you

to know how much I appreciate this.

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it has been eyeopening and

so fun to get to know you.

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Speaker 2: I enjoyed it so much

too and I love this subject and I

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appreciate you putting it out there.

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'cause this is very important.

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And I appreciate what you're doing.

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Speaker: Well thank you.

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I wanna talk more so thanks

so much for being here.

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I think you're gonna be back.

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Thank you.

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I appreciate it.

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Would love it.

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you take good care.

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Okay.

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Bye-Bye.

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About the Podcast

Doing Divorce Different A Podcast Guide to Doing Divorce Differently
Alleviate your fear of divorce and do it a different way. Join Family Law Attorney and Mediator Lesa Koski for candid conversations to take the fear out of Divorce. You will be empowered to heal through your divorce!

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Lesa Koski