When a Marriage Starts to Fade: Dr. Becky Wetstone on Healing, Self-Growth & Divorce

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Welcome listeners.

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I am so thrilled you're here today.

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I have Dr.

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Becky Wetstone, and she's a

marriage and family therapist,

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and she has been through it all.

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She is going to share

her story with us today.

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I love getting information from people

who have been through, hard things and

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I love having people on this podcast.

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Who are helping other people, you

know, so that they can get through it.

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We're all gonna go through hard things,

but we can learn from each other.

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And I think that's what Dr.

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Becky is going to help us with today.

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we're gonna do like a two part series,

so I'm super excited and Becky is

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a new friend of mine, so this is

gonna be really fun, to get to know

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each other through this podcast.

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But the first part, one, we're

gonna talk about changing the story

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when you are going through divorce

and moving on and how you do that.

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And we're also gonna talk

about using time alone to grow.

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Now, when you come back here next

week, we're gonna talk all about

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the kids, so make sure you join us

for that, upcoming episode as well.

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But.

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Becky, can I call you Becky?

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Should I call you Dr.

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Becky?

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Call me Becky.

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Alright, Becky, well welcome and thank you

so much for taking the time to be here.

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But Becky, I am looking forward

to hearing your authentic story.

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Speaker 2: story kind of, I mean, I

had an inkling that maybe I was gonna

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work in relationships very early on.

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I wanted to be an advice columnist.

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I fell in love with Ann Landers and Dr.

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Joyce Brothers and stuff like that.

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And so I kind of made my

mind up that I was gonna.

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Replace Anne Landers

when she retired someday.

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So I did, go major in

journalism and stuff like that.

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But I was never a great academic

kind of person and stuff.

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And even my professors in, journalism,

told me that I should maybe go into

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photo journalism or something else.

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But I didn't wanna

write hard news stories.

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You know, I've always been,

I'm a born feature writer.

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I'm interested in interesting

people, places and things.

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And they told me you couldn't start

off your career as a feature writer.

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You had to work your way up,

pay, pay your dues, go work in a

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tiny town and get paid nothing.

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And so I veered away from my profession

because of all the things that.

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I was told.

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And so later on I became a housewife.

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and I was, my parents kind of

raised me to be a housewife.

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I mean, they put in my head that the

goal was to marry a man and a successful

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man, and he would take care of you and

then you could do whatever you wanted.

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A, a career would be just something

you do to, to stay occupied, you know?

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So I kind of went along with that

plan for a while, and I had two small

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children with this very successful man.

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and, you know, he was a workaholic.

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He was very neglectful, not affectionate

and mean sometimes, just, controlling.

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And I kind of walked on eggshells

around him but when we first got

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together, he was so in love with me

and he would just yell it to everybody.

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I love her.

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She's wonderful, and

he was so affectionate.

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I was like, I'm the

luckiest woman in the world.

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I married this man.

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but six months into our marriage,

it's like he slammed the door

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emotional and physical door in my

face and turned into someone else.

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Literally, he just became

cold and withdrawn and like

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this walking on eggshells guy.

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It was like, come back and

play with me, come back.

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he just kept me at arm's length.

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He almost never came home.

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He left before I woke up in the

morning and he came back at bedtime.

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sometimes he would bite my head off

when I asked him to change and to

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go do something about his problems.

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And other times he would

go, okay, I will do it soon.

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over time you realize that.

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People are just talking and

they're not gonna do, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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When I started catching on to the fact

that he was a talker and not a doer

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and he wasn't going to change and he

had no intention to, that's when my

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feelings about the marriage really

began to plummet, and I lost hope and I

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entered into a marriage crisis process.

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I didn't know then that marriage is die

in predictable stages, but I went through

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all these stages and finally bottomed out.

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I had a straw that

breaks the camel's back.

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He did something that was so cruel

and awful that in that moment I

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said, dude, this is in my head, dude.

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You're gonna be divorced

by the end of the year.

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And I didn't want.

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To get a divorce.

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I couldn't support myself really.

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I had a college degree, but I, you

know, I couldn't even make enough money

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probably to have a middle class lifestyle.

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And Texas divorce laws were terrible.

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Speaker: still are terrible.

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They're terrible.

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And so I know Michelle Lock on,

she was telling me about Texas.

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Speaker 2: I was going to go from

a upper middle class woman to

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destitute overnight if I divorce him.

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And I knew that, but I was so

miserable that, I just reached this

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point that so many people do that.

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That when, when you're in your rational

mind, you're going, well, I can't

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divorce him 'cause I'll be destitute.

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But when you reach this point

of desperation, you're telling

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yourself, I don't care if I'm a bad

lady, I've gotta get out of this.

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This is so horrible.

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So I reached that point.

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And so I, I told him one night,

look, you, we've gotta separate.

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I just, I can't even stand to

be in the same house as you.

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I'm so angry.

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I'm so disappointed.

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I don't know what I want, but I do

know that I need to get away from you.

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And, so we went to a marriage

therapist and told him what was going

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on and he said, I can't help you.

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You know, you're not motivated

to work on the marriage, so, you

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know, go deal with your stuff and

if you get motivated, come back.

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So he and I managed this marriage crisis

on our own and It was like ridiculous.

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we made so many mistakes.

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We did so many awful things and we

ended up pretty quickly divorced.

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and I've been haunted after that, like why

couldn't the marriage therapist help us?

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it's had 30 years to see how

it's played out with our kids and

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with both of us and everything.

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if I could go back, I wish we had done

more to try and save our marriage,

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but again, haunted by why couldn't

this marriage therapist help us?

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Speaker: Okay.

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So I have a question.

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I'm sorry, I have to jump in.

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So said the marriage therapist.

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Told you that you, was he

talking to both of you?

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Yeah.

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That you don't want the marriage.

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So he thought that you guys, you

don't want this marriage to work,

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so there's nothing you can do.

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Speaker 2: it's not that

I didn't want it to work.

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I told him I didn't know, but right now

I didn't want to work on the marriage.

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I just wanted to get away from him.

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Speaker: Okay, so this is so

interesting and I'm so excited to

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learn from you because I don't even

know that there are stages to divorce.

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I've talked about grief and divorce,

but I wanna get into that because

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that is peaking my curiosity.

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Speaker 2: aware of,

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Speaker: just like I'm aware

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Speaker 2: Seriously?

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Yep.

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Speaker: Okay.

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So let's, let's go through that.

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But what I tell my people when they

come for me to, for a consultation

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is start by working on yourself.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah.

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Speaker: Oh my gosh.

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Because guess what?

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I've had near divorce experiences,

and when I start working on myself

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and I set up some boundaries, woo-hoo.

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Suddenly hubby becomes like,

nice and gets it, you know?

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That's always my number one thing.

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Is that kind of your

thought process as well?

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Speaker 2: Oh no, for sure.

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You know, I, back then I was a pleaser and

so I, part of the reason I was so angry

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is I had given my all and made so many

sacrifices for this man, and I got zero.

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Only thing I got in return was,

you know, he made good money

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and we had a great lifestyle.

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So, you know, I was

like 32 years old or 33.

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I still wanted love and romance and

emotional connection and stuff like

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that, and like I said, when you sacrifice

yourself for others or you're just

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conforming to what others want you to do

and want you to be, then you're setting

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yourself up later on for a midlife crisis.

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Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: the midlife crisis is

caused by sacrifice and conforming

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and not getting your needs met.

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And then one fine day, it all

comes to a head when you just sort

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of bust out of a cannon and say.

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I've got to do something for myself.

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Yep.

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So if you had been taking care of yourself

and getting your needs met all along and

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being more balanced in your life, then you

could have avoided that, that moment later

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on when a marriage crisis moment happened.

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Right.

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But I had, mine was basically

the marriage crisises.

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When I busted out of the cannon,

right then, it was the worst part of

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myself, which is a bratty child who

says, I'm gonna do what I wanna do,

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and I don't care what anybody thinks.

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that's the part of the marriage

crisis where I blew it because I was

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just, it was gonna be all about me.

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in a midlife crisis, that's how it

is, is for about one to two years, a

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person's itd, that child that Freud talk

about, that part of your personality

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that's a child is kind of perverted in

a negative way, and they're a bratty

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child, and so they've gotta go get

that out of their system, you know?

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So that's kind of what I was doing,

getting that outta my system.

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And, and he, he was, you

know, what I call a hard ass.

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there's, there's no better term for it.

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He just a hard ass.

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And so he clamped down on me and started

punishing me like a rigid parent.

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and you know, we just made a lot of

terrible mistakes, whereas I think

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we still loved each other and I think

he would've then been motivated to

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work on the marriage if I had been.

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But, our, we just couldn't get our timing

right and we had no one to help us, and

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so we ended up divorced and, not having

a good relationship from then on, you

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know, to co-parent and all that stuff.

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So, like I said, I was haunted

for a long, long time about why,

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why didn't that therapist help us?

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What could have been done?

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So I, after my divorce, I had

to get a job and because I.

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I am a writer.

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I went and got a job at the

newspaper as a feature writer at

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the Express News in San Antonio.

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So there I am already doing

something that the editors in

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school told me I could never do.

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You can't star as a feature writer.

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They told me, well guess what?

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Yes you can.

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And so I did.

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and then pretty soon I got a column

and I was writing about relationships

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in my column and it was so popular,

extremely popular, almost cult-like

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in San Antonio at the time.

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And so I knew that I, you know, whatever

I was saying was really resonating.

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'cause I was writing as a single

mom and what it was like to be a

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single mom and what it was like to

date and all that kind of stuff.

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And the news wasn't good, by the way.

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So the thing is, I became kind of a

relationship guru in San Antonio and

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radio shows, had me on all the time and

TV shows, had me on local TV shows and.

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The big complaint they always had

about me is I had no credentials.

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So one of the hosts said to me one

time, Becky, why don't you just go

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get a mail order PhD or something

so I can shut these people up?

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And I said, no, if Becky's gonna

get some credentials, she's

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gonna get legitimate credentials.

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So I decided to go to graduate school

to make myself more legitimate.

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And lo and behold, in graduate

school, I discovered academic

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research and scholarly articles

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Questions in Ladies Home Journal

and Self Magazine and that.

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and when I was messing around with

the research, I found all these

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things like the stages of a dying

marriage and things that could have

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been done in a marriage crisis that

our counselor had not known about.

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And then in graduate school, I also

learned that they don't teach us about

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how to handle couples in marriage crisis.

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So there was this huge void.

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And so no therapist

know anything about it.

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I told myself in graduate school, when

I get outta here, I'm going to tell

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everybody about these stages of a dying

marriage so they'll know when to go to

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therapy and get help, and I'm going to

tell people everything I've learned and

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I'm gonna fill this void of helping people

in marriage crisis have a place to go

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and someone knowledgeable who can coach

them through it and save the marriages

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that can be saved that otherwise would've

ended up divorced through just silly,

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ridiculous mistakes that were made.

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Speaker: So, okay, Becky, now bingo.

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Another reason why I love you is.

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I love coaching.

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Mm-hmm.

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I think therapy has its place.

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Right?

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And you are a marriage and family

therapist and you sound like a coach.

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Yeah.

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So I think it has a place,

but it's pretty limited.

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Like, I don't ever go to a

therapist for a real long time.

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I wanna go, I wanna figure out my past.

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But I want, I wanna be able to

learn how to move forward, how to

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save the marriage, not just look

at it and see how I feel about it.

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And I don't mean to poo poo

therapist, don't get me wrong, but

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I love the fact that when I hear

you talk, I'm hearing a coach.

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Why is that?

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Yeah.

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Well because,

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Speaker 2: I knew in my twenties that

something wasn't right with me and my

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relationships with my family, With making

friends with dating and having boyfriends

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and husbands, I knew that something wasn't

right and I didn't know what it was.

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And so, I literally went to

a therapist and said, teach

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me how to be a healthy adult.

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Like, tell me what it is.

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Give me lessons.

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teach me how to be

healthy in relationships.

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'cause I don't even know what

I'm shooting for, you know?

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And so I wanted to go to life school.

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I wanted people to tell me like, is

it them that's having the problem?

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Is it me?

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Is it all of us?

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Like, what the heck is going on here?

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Because I knew I was a good person, I

knew I was a smart person and I was just

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having disastrous relationships and had

difficulty making friends and whatnot.

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So I think, I started, looking for

teachers I think when you go to therapy

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school, you're observed through windows

and cameras when you're doing therapy

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with people in the university clinic.

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And the professor will call you back

there and go stop lecturing your clients.

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so we're trained not to do that, but I

disagreed with them and, my professor

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used to say, well, you're gonna have

clients run screaming out of the room

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if you continue to lecture 'em and

try to teach 'em and stuff like that.

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You know what that was, that's

not been my experience at all.

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Right.

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So, so I found some models after I got

outta graduate school that clearly teach

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people how to be healthy as an adult

and how to be healthy in relationships

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and, and these models are trauma based.

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I think the new wave of therapy, the,

the cutting edge of therapy now is

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more of a combo of the healing part

and the coaching and education part.

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I love that.

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I think that's, I'm melding all of them.

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I can diagnose whether they have

depression or anxiety or, you know,

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tell 'em what they need to do for

these things and, and even do trauma

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work with them and process their

childhood with them like any therapist.

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Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: But I also teach, I literally

have a whiteboard and I teach them, draw

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pictures and stuff, showing 'em what it

is to be a healthy adult, which is the

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most, I mean, your, your own self-care

is at the top of the totem pole when

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you're healthy and mind, body, spirit.

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it's sort of like that, metaphor

of the mask on the airplane.

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You know, if you don't get the

oxygen, nobody else is gonna get it.

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if we take care of ourselves,

we'll be energetic, healthy, and

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vibrant, and that trickles down to

everything else that we're doing.

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Amen.

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If we're operating in a depleted,

depressed state by just giving all to

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other and not receiving, that's also gonna

trickle down to all of our relationships.

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Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: So a lot of what I

do is relationships, school, I

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love it with self and others,

and it just has to be that way.

309

: 00:16:40

There's no other way.

310

: 00:16:41

Speaker: Yeah.

311

: 00:16:42

I, am in line with you and I'm so thankful

that I get to chat with you today.

312

: 00:16:46

and now let's go into the schooling

a little bit and I can't help it.

313

: 00:16:50

I wasn't gonna talk about those steps.

314

: 00:16:53

Of a dying ma, but I need to hear 'em

now because you brought it up and I

315

: 00:16:56

think the listeners, it's, you know,

I didn't introduce it that we were

316

: 00:16:59

gonna talk about it, but would you mind

going through what those phases are?

317

: 00:17:03

do you call it phases of a dying marriage?

318

: 00:17:06

Yeah.

319

: 00:17:06

The stages

320

: 00:17:07

Speaker 2: it's like stages of cancer.

321

: 00:17:09

first stage you catch cancer

and it's usually curable.

322

: 00:17:13

Often curable.

323

: 00:17:14

No big deal.

324

: 00:17:15

I had that.

325

: 00:17:16

Okay.

326

: 00:17:16

and then the farther down the stages

you go in marital deterioration,

327

: 00:17:20

the harder it gets to cure.

328

: 00:17:22

Yeah.

329

: 00:17:22

Or fix the marriage.

330

: 00:17:24

Okay.

331

: 00:17:25

So I think it's very important that

we teach people what the stages are.

332

: 00:17:28

So they know that by state, when you're

in stage two, you need to talk to your

333

: 00:17:33

spouse and tell 'em you're struggling in

the marriage and I hope you do go to a

334

: 00:17:37

marriage therapist at that time, but the

first stage is called disillusionment.

335

: 00:17:42

disillusionment begins when the person

just suddenly becomes aware of uhoh.

336

: 00:17:47

I think I'm unhappy.

337

: 00:17:49

Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.

338

: 00:17:50

Speaker 2: And then they'll go, well, you

know, I know marriages have ups and downs,

339

: 00:17:54

so I'll just wait and see how this goes.

340

: 00:17:57

Well, stage two is called erosion.

341

: 00:18:01

This is when the person goes,

wait a minute, my unhappiness, my

342

: 00:18:05

disillusionment is not going away.

343

: 00:18:07

It's, and I'm realizing it's serious and

it's so serious it could lead to divorce.

344

: 00:18:14

Oh, wait a minute.

345

: 00:18:15

I'm not getting a divorce because I

have 25 reasons why I'm not a divorce.

346

: 00:18:21

So, oh my God, you know,

I'm in serious trouble.

347

: 00:18:24

Okay, so ladies and

gentlemen, this is when.

348

: 00:18:27

You tell your spouse you're struggling.

349

: 00:18:30

one of the worst things that I

learned in the marital deterioration

350

: 00:18:34

phenomenon is how many people

don't speak out the entire time.

351

: 00:18:39

They hold the secret of their unhappiness

all the way to the fourth and fifth stage

352

: 00:18:45

when they just can't hold it in anymore.

353

: 00:18:48

And then they bust, you know?

354

: 00:18:50

And, and, and then they're saying, I think

I want out, I think I want a, a divorce.

355

: 00:18:55

So, so, so stage two is, is,

you know, it, it's serious.

356

: 00:19:01

It could lead to divorce stage three.

357

: 00:19:04

Is, oh my God, I am so unhappy

in this marriage and it is

358

: 00:19:09

really, really difficult for me.

359

: 00:19:11

the only way I'm gonna survive this 'cause

I've already decided I'm not getting a

360

: 00:19:15

divorce, is to detach myself from this

person and occupy myself with things

361

: 00:19:22

away from the marriage that I enjoy.

362

: 00:19:23

So that could be, you go back to school,

you have an affair, you start hobbies,

363

: 00:19:29

you join bike, bicycle clubs, or you start

doing things that take you away from the

364

: 00:19:36

marriage and that's your coping skill.

365

: 00:19:39

Speaker: Can I ask a question?

366

: 00:19:40

Speaker 2: sure.

367

: 00:19:41

Speaker: Okay.

368

: 00:19:41

So I have been married for 34 years and

I love my husband and we do a lot of

369

: 00:19:46

things together, but that doesn't mean

that it's unhealthy for me to have my

370

: 00:19:52

Speaker 2: Gotcha.

371

: 00:19:52

You know, like, it's a,

it's, you're unhappy.

372

: 00:19:57

It's like, you know, if I have a

sibling, you know, when I'm a kid and

373

: 00:20:00

you've got a sibling who makes you

miserable, you're going to avoid them.

374

: 00:20:05

You're going to get away from them

every opportunity that you can and

375

: 00:20:09

find ways to stay away from 'em.

376

: 00:20:11

Right?

377

: 00:20:11

So this is just like human nature.

378

: 00:20:14

And so, you know, you're with

this spouse that you're, is

379

: 00:20:17

very, you're very miserable.

380

: 00:20:19

So you're just finding a coping mechanism

which is avoiding and staying away.

381

: 00:20:23

It's not surely, like, you know,

this has nothing to do with

382

: 00:20:27

being in a healthy marriage where

you nurture your individuality.

383

: 00:20:30

Speaker: Yes.

384

: 00:20:31

Speaker 2: You know.

385

: 00:20:31

Speaker: Thank you.

386

: 00:20:32

Speaker 2: Okay.

387

: 00:20:32

So, we don't know when you're in stage

three or what day it's gonna happen, but

388

: 00:20:37

one day the straw is gonna happen and

that's when your spouse does something or

389

: 00:20:41

says something or doesn't do something.

390

: 00:20:44

It could be small, it could be large,

but whatever it is in that moment you

391

: 00:20:48

get this immediate clarity where you

say, I can't be with somebody who just

392

: 00:20:54

did this thing that they just did.

393

: 00:20:56

And so in that moment, many people

come out at that moment and say.

394

: 00:21:03

I think I want a divorce.

395

: 00:21:04

I think I want to leave, but

other people hold it in still.

396

: 00:21:08

they may be making plans in their

head to get away or to get out or be

397

: 00:21:13

calling lawyers or looking at places

to go, how much they would get in

398

: 00:21:17

a divorce, those kinds of things.

399

: 00:21:20

And then stage five is what

I call death of the marriage.

400

: 00:21:23

And that's when the person has decided

to completely emotionally unplug.

401

: 00:21:31

some of those marriages do, get saved.

402

: 00:21:35

the thing about stage five is when

you say death of the marriage, it's

403

: 00:21:39

death of what the marriage was.

404

: 00:21:42

If it's going to be saved, that

person will not accept status quo.

405

: 00:21:48

It will have to be drastically

different or they're completely

406

: 00:21:54

gonna leave and get a divorce.

407

: 00:21:56

Speaker: Okay.

408

: 00:21:57

Speaker 2: And some people that

hit stage five won't even give

409

: 00:22:00

their spouse another chance at all.

410

: 00:22:02

And that's, that's part of, you know,

my job is to poke around and see what's

411

: 00:22:08

possible when I get a stage five person,

412

: 00:22:11

You know, like I make them think

about every aspect of this and

413

: 00:22:15

then how it's gonna play out.

414

: 00:22:16

and the other thing is a lot of people

have divorce fantasies, you know, like,

415

: 00:22:20

oh, it's gonna be so wonderful when I

just get away from this awful person and

416

: 00:22:23

my kids will be fine, and all that stuff.

417

: 00:22:26

And that's just a lie that

you tell yourself, you know?

418

: 00:22:29

Mm-hmm.

419

: 00:22:29

It's gonna be tough.

420

: 00:22:30

It's gonna be a very, very tough road.

421

: 00:22:32

So, you know, I just make sure people

are realistic in their decision making.

422

: 00:22:37

Speaker: Yeah.

423

: 00:22:37

Okay.

424

: 00:22:37

So now you, I love that you've given

us these five stages and so say

425

: 00:22:42

you're with the person and it's clear

that it's time to move, you know,

426

: 00:22:46

to go move forward with the divorce.

427

: 00:22:51

So I wanted to talk about changing

your story and how to move on.

428

: 00:22:57

Mm-hmm.

429

: 00:22:57

I think this is a good

time to bring that up,

430

: 00:22:59

Speaker 2: marathon, Lisa,

let's just do a marathon.

431

: 00:23:03

Well, the thing is, a lot of

people tell me, you know, okay,

432

: 00:23:06

well, we're getting a divorce.

433

: 00:23:07

I'm a failure.

434

: 00:23:08

I've wasted my last 15

or 30 or whatever, right?

435

: 00:23:11

Years of my life, and I go, I really,

honestly tell them, I have never

436

: 00:23:15

looked at that as a failure at all.

437

: 00:23:18

I just think that is the wrong word.

438

: 00:23:20

It's a negative word, and it's not true.

439

: 00:23:23

The reason is every life experience

is a classroom of people in our

440

: 00:23:29

lives are teachers, and so this

is a learning and growing moment

441

: 00:23:35

for you to take stock of yourself.

442

: 00:23:40

The kind of person that you chose for

yourself, you know, the mistakes made the

443

: 00:23:45

regrets, and start working to be better

in those areas and correct those areas so

444

: 00:23:52

that you can have a healthy relationship

in the future if that's what you desire.

445

: 00:23:57

so that's the first thing is don't think

that those years were wasted or mm-hmm.

446

: 00:24:04

Failure.

447

: 00:24:06

Speaker: Right.

448

: 00:24:06

I love the things that you're

saying because I agree with you.

449

: 00:24:10

I really work on not, you

know, failure is so negative.

450

: 00:24:15

Do we even really have to say

that I've had learning experience

451

: 00:24:19

for 15 years through a marriage,

and boy did it teach me.

452

: 00:24:22

Speaker 2: I think the word

should be used very rarely.

453

: 00:24:24

let's say you give me a 500 pound bar

bill and ask me to lift it, I'll let

454

: 00:24:29

you say I was a failure picking up.

455

: 00:24:33

Speaker 3: Right.

456

: 00:24:33

You

457

: 00:24:34

Speaker 2: know, that has

nothing to do with my humanity

458

: 00:24:36

or my character or anything.

459

: 00:24:38

It's just more of a physical ability.

460

: 00:24:40

You know, either you can

do that or you can't.

461

: 00:24:42

Right.

462

: 00:24:43

but I really dislike the word failure

and, and also dislike the word

463

: 00:24:47

selfish too, because I think, a lot

of my clients, when I start telling

464

: 00:24:51

'em to go take care of themselves,

they'll say, well, isn't that selfish?

465

: 00:24:55

Speaker: Yeah.

466

: 00:24:56

Speaker 2: take that word

outta your vocabulary because

467

: 00:24:58

it discourages self-care.

468

: 00:25:00

Yeah.

469

: 00:25:00

it makes 'em feel guilty about

being nice to themselves.

470

: 00:25:04

Speaker 3: Yeah.

471

: 00:25:04

Speaker 2: And the truth is, we're

supposed to be nice, compassionate,

472

: 00:25:07

and generous to ourselves every

day, all the time, you know?

473

: 00:25:11

And another word I hate in the

English language is deserve, you

474

: 00:25:14

know, though, people will go.

475

: 00:25:17

Becky, you know, I'll say, I'm

not gonna be in here next week

476

: 00:25:20

'cause I'm going on vacation.

477

: 00:25:21

Well, Becky, you work so

hard, you deserve a vacation.

478

: 00:25:25

Like, and I, so they're basically

saying, you've gotta suffer and have

479

: 00:25:28

bloody knuckles to have a vacation.

480

: 00:25:32

You know, I got a new car,

Becky, you deserve a new car.

481

: 00:25:37

You work so hard.

482

: 00:25:39

And you know, it's just like, oh, please.

483

: 00:25:41

I mean, why is it insinuated

that we have to suffer?

484

: 00:25:45

Speaker: Okay, so when you're helping

people move on, the first step is

485

: 00:25:49

to kind of like, not judge yourself.

486

: 00:25:52

Love yourself.

487

: 00:25:52

Take care of yourself and learn

from what you went through.

488

: 00:25:56

Don't, it doesn't have to be negative's.

489

: 00:26:00

A learning.

490

: 00:26:00

Speaker 2: I need a loving necro,

you know, of the relationship.

491

: 00:26:04

where did we both go wrong here?

492

: 00:26:07

And what are the things moving

forward that I like when I'm looking

493

: 00:26:10

for new partners in the future?

494

: 00:26:11

Like I need to have my list of

personality traits and things.

495

: 00:26:16

I think a lot of people marry and they

don't think about these personality

496

: 00:26:20

traits that people have that are going to

be annoying when you marry them, right?

497

: 00:26:26

And so I think you just really need to

examine like what you really want and need

498

: 00:26:31

and the kind of partner you want and need.

499

: 00:26:33

And for sure.

500

: 00:26:34

You know, one thing to keep in mind

is if you marry some rigid person

501

: 00:26:39

who's a control freak and stuff like

that, I've yet to meet a person that

502

: 00:26:43

can be happily married to someone

who's rigid or a control freak.

503

: 00:26:46

People with, That, that have to

have the house look a certain

504

: 00:26:50

way, you know, these are people

that are difficult to live with.

505

: 00:26:54

The more flexibility and go with

the flow is a huge predictor

506

: 00:26:59

of a lifelong happy marriage.

507

: 00:27:03

Speaker: Well, and here's the thing,

Becky, as you say that I can't help it.

508

: 00:27:06

I know people who are like

what you're talking about.

509

: 00:27:09

Some of them have never been married.

510

: 00:27:10

So listen to rigid people out there.

511

: 00:27:14

If you really wanna be in relationship

with someone, start working on yourself.

512

: 00:27:19

Yes.

513

: 00:27:20

And I tell clients

514

: 00:27:21

Speaker 2: one of the things you're

gonna have to do is learn flexibility

515

: 00:27:25

and start doing that in your therapy

because you're just gonna enter into

516

: 00:27:29

the same situation, with another person.

517

: 00:27:32

And they're gonna be miserable.

518

: 00:27:34

I had somebody recently say,

why should I work on my.

519

: 00:27:38

Control.

520

: 00:27:39

The next partner may like it and

521

: 00:27:44

they won't.

522

: 00:27:49

Speaker: oh my gosh, I love it.

523

: 00:27:50

And what's making me laugh is

I just absolutely know someone.

524

: 00:27:53

Exactly.

525

: 00:27:54

To a T who is like what you were saying.

526

: 00:27:58

We all do.

527

: 00:27:58

And I love them.

528

: 00:27:59

I love them.

529

: 00:28:00

But it's like, come on honey.

530

: 00:28:01

And you feel bad like, yeah, I

want you to have a family and

531

: 00:28:06

a life and but sweetheart, you

gotta work on, work on you.

532

: 00:28:10

And so that's what

you're helping people do.

533

: 00:28:13

You're helping people.

534

: 00:28:14

It sounds like this, moving on is

learning about yourself, learning about

535

: 00:28:20

what you want in a marriage, getting

some, use it as a starting block.

536

: 00:28:25

Speaker 2: stock.

537

: 00:28:26

Of everything.

538

: 00:28:28

Improve yourself in the areas that you

learn, know that you need to mm-hmm.

539

: 00:28:33

And prepare yourself.

540

: 00:28:34

It's like preparing farmland for a crop.

541

: 00:28:37

Yep.

542

: 00:28:39

You wanna situate yourself where

you got, you're that rich, deep,

543

: 00:28:44

dark, luscious soil, you know,

where great things are gonna grow.

544

: 00:28:49

Yep.

545

: 00:28:49

And so, but so many, you know, people

get a divorce and say if they've

546

: 00:28:53

got a problem where they can't be

alone, which is a huge problem.

547

: 00:28:57

Like, if you can't be alone, you are

not a candidate for marriage yet.

548

: 00:29:00

People marry every day.

549

: 00:29:02

Right.

550

: 00:29:02

Can't be alone.

551

: 00:29:04

And so, the ones who can't be

alone quickly go sign up, you

552

: 00:29:08

know, and get with somebody else.

553

: 00:29:10

and they're not discerning.

554

: 00:29:12

they take the first decent

person that comes along.

555

: 00:29:15

I call these people lazy daters.

556

: 00:29:18

It's almost like they're standing in

a group of people and they just turn

557

: 00:29:21

around to the first decent person

and go, Hey, you'll, you'll do,

558

: 00:29:26

come on over here and be my partner.

559

: 00:29:28

You know?

560

: 00:29:28

And to me, like if we were gonna choose

one car to drive through our whole

561

: 00:29:33

entire life, you know, would you, would

you pick a, a two seater convertible,

562

: 00:29:41

you know, to last you your whole life?

563

: 00:29:43

I would think that you would have to

consider all the different life stages

564

: 00:29:47

and things that you're gonna be going

through with this person and, and,

565

: 00:29:51

and choose somebody that's got the

best chance of making it with you and

566

: 00:29:55

growing with you over the long haul.

567

: 00:29:59

the other thing about rigid people

is especially if you marry young,

568

: 00:30:02

like you're gonna change so much.

569

: 00:30:04

Like we can't even exaggerate

how much humans are gonna change,

570

: 00:30:08

especially in their twenties.

571

: 00:30:11

And you don't know how

you're gonna change.

572

: 00:30:13

You don't know what it's gonna be.

573

: 00:30:15

You don't know where you're gonna end up.

574

: 00:30:16

And if you have a partner that can't

handle the change in growth that you

575

: 00:30:20

are gonna go through and you can't

handle their change in growth and you

576

: 00:30:25

better not be signing up for marriage.

577

: 00:30:28

'cause you've got to be able to

let your spouse grow and change and

578

: 00:30:32

discover who they are over time.

579

: 00:30:36

So a lot of those 20 year

marriages, 15 year marriages are.

580

: 00:30:41

The, say the husband had a job and

the wife was very dependent on him in

581

: 00:30:46

the beginning and maybe didn't even

have her education, but she went and

582

: 00:30:49

got her education and kind of grew up

while they were married, and now she's

583

: 00:30:54

demanding a seat of equality at the table.

584

: 00:30:57

You know, like she doesn't wanna be

treated, like a dependent anymore.

585

: 00:31:02

And then a lot of husbands,

need to feel needed.

586

: 00:31:06

and they're balking at their

wife's power play to say, I

587

: 00:31:11

want equal power with you here.

588

: 00:31:13

So if the husband can't let her.

589

: 00:31:17

Grow and take that seat at the table.

590

: 00:31:20

Many times those marriages won't make it

591

: 00:31:22

Speaker: right.

592

: 00:31:23

And, Becky, as you're talking about

this, it, it, makes me giggle a

593

: 00:31:26

little bit too, because I love

learning, I love life, I love growth.

594

: 00:31:30

And my husband is like, okay,

can we stop growing for a second?

595

: 00:31:36

Speaker 2: A lot of people

stop growing in eighth grade.

596

: 00:31:39

Speaker: I know he's jumped on along.

597

: 00:31:41

Well, I can't say it hasn't been painful

sometimes, but he's, it's been amazing.

598

: 00:31:46

It's been an amazing journey.

599

: 00:31:47

And so we're gonna, I have to stop

this because it's going over what I

600

: 00:31:52

usually do, but we're having you back

next week, so that's gonna be fun

601

: 00:31:54

where we're gonna talk about parenting.

602

: 00:31:56

But I think just to circle back

and kind of end this conversation

603

: 00:32:01

with is when it's time to move on,

take care of yourself, be alone.

604

: 00:32:07

Be alone, and take care of yourself for

a little while so that you can discern.

605

: 00:32:11

What you really want.

606

: 00:32:13

Know what you want.

607

: 00:32:15

Work with someone like Dr.

608

: 00:32:16

Becky.

609

: 00:32:17

and Becky, you have a book that's

gonna be in the show notes.

610

: 00:32:20

We're probably gonna talk more

about that later, but I just feel so

611

: 00:32:23

blessed to have had you here talking

about this subject, and I can't

612

: 00:32:26

wait to talk more about parenting.

613

: 00:32:28

So thank you so much, Becky.

614

: 00:32:29

I'm grateful.

615

: 00:32:30

Thank you so much.

616

: 00:32:31

Take good care.

617

: 00:32:33

Speaker 2: Thanks.