Rebuilding After Divorce; Financial Independence with Catherine Collins

Lesa Koski: 00:00:01

Welcome listeners.

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I'm thrilled to have you here today.

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And you're going to love to

get to know Catherine Collins.

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Cat, another name we are going to probably

be calling her cat, but she's an author.

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She's kind of a money expert.

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She's going to share her

authentic story with us.

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She also has her own podcast,

but today on doing divorces.

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different.

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We're going to talk

about divorce recovery.

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And, um, you know, sometimes

that's hard for women or men.

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Finances are a huge part of divorce.

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So I'm thankful to have Catherine

here to help walk us through that.

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Grateful for her time.

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And I just want to let you know, if

you love this podcast and you want

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to hear more from Catherine, she's

going to be on my saddle up live.

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Podcasts also talking about stay at home

moms versus working moms and how to get

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your kids on the right financial path.

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So go ahead and check

her out there as well.

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But let's get to know Catherine.

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Catherine, welcome.

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Thank you for being here.

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Catt Collins: Thanks for having me.

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I'm so excited.

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I'm excited to be on both your podcasts.

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Lesa Koski: Awesome.

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Well, tell me Catherine,

what led you down this path?

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Catt Collins: Yeah.

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Well, like so many entrepreneurs,

I'm kind of an accidental one.

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I actually went to school for history.

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I went to grad school for history.

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I wanted to work in museums

and be a curator and educator.

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And I, and I did those things,

but while I was in grad school, I

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started a blog called Budget Blonde.

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And I shared all about my

like thrifting adventures and

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how I was surviving on this.

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Pittance of a TA salary.

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I think it was like 14, 000 a year

or something insane like that.

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And it became my creative outlet.

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This was in 2010.

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So this was.

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So many years before blogging became

mainstream, before it became people's

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incomes, this was where, you know, we were

literally just chatting about our lives.

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There's no search engine optimization,

no marketing, like I'm just getting

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back from these difficult classes and

just sharing my thrift store finds.

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And I, Uh, over time when I just

supplement my income and I started to

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search for freelance writing jobs and

I found, um, writing jobs at like a

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budget beauty blog for like 8 a post.

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And I was so thrilled with that

because I was like, I'm a real writer.

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People are paying me for my words.

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I'm so legit.

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And over time I would get emails.

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Like I got an email from a

mortgage company and it said, we

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love how you write about money.

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Uh, would you please

write about mortgages?

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And I'm like 20 years old.

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I never.

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Had a mortgage, never written

about mortgages, but I was a

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trained historian and researcher.

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So I, I was like, yeah, totally.

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I can write about that because I'm

broke and I want to make money.

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And, uh, so I just knew that I had

the ability to research it, make sure

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it was accurate, make it compelling.

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And that set me on a path.

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I'm becoming a financial writer full time.

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It took many years, but I'm essentially

self taught and I love sharing that with

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people because I think there's a big thing

in the finance community that you have to

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have all these letters behind your name

and all that stuff is very legitimate for

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investing advice and things like that.

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But what I like to show people

is that it doesn't matter your

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background or your education.

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So much of this stuff is just not taught

in school and we can all learn it.

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And so over the years, I, you

know, became a freelance writer,

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did brand deals, got a book deal.

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Uh, financial writing is still a

large part of my income, but, uh,

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I, uh, got a business partner.

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We bought other financial websites

and we just started our own podcast.

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So we do a million different things, but

that's the, uh, weird direction the last,

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you know, almost 15 years has taken.

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Lesa Koski: That's amazing.

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And I didn't know that.

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And I love that.

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I love, um, well, basically what

you did is you found something

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that you loved learning about

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Catt Collins: and

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Lesa Koski: you probably can make it

really easy for people to understand.

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And you know what?

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A lot of my listeners are going to love

to hear that because there may be feeling

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like they have no idea what's going on

financially and now they get to talk

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to you and hear what you have to say.

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And you know, also we'll have in the show

notes where to find that book of yours.

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You know, you also.

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Have something called the five year you

and is that that's related to finances?

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Catt Collins: Is it?

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It is.

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Well, it is the name of, uh, my,

my same partner and I, that we

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have all the financial websites.

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Uh, we are personal development

junkies, self improvement junkies.

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We're always like reading the same

books and, um, During the pandemic,

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we started thinking about this ideas.

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Like, you know, what if we talked

about more than just money?

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What if we talked about all the things

that we use in our business life, life

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hacks and, uh, time hacks and, you know,

talking about our feelings, especially

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him because he was a man and he's, you

know, very big on encouraging other

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men to, you know, feel their feelings.

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And we're just huge.

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On mental health in general.

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And so five year you, we created it to,

uh, the goal is to help 1 million people

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become their best selves in five years.

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And a big component of that is

becoming financially independent.

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Lesa Koski: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I love that.

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Okay.

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So we're going to go back and talk

about the finances, but I just

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want to say, I love that you're.

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You're being kind of courageous by saying

the five year you because Kat, you've got

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to get people who are really committed to

say, okay, I'm willing to wait five years.

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Yes.

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And people will drop off because

you can give them advice,

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but they want the quick fix.

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They want to know.

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And so listeners.

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It doesn't mean that you're not going to

see better things happening in your life

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before five years, but it's realistic.

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It's honest and it's true.

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And I love that.

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I love that.

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Thank

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Catt Collins: you so much.

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Lesa Koski: Okay.

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So now I want to talk a

little bit about divorce.

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I don't know how familiar you are with

divorce, but a lot, you know, listeners

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here are going through divorce issues

and probably terrified about finances.

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What?

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You know, can you, how can you

help them feel less afraid?

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Catt Collins: No, I, I'm

very familiar with divorce.

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I get it.

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I didn't know.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I got, I got divorced two and a half

years ago and it was pretty, it was an

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unexpected divorce and, um, I obviously

went through all the same emotions

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that your listeners are feeling.

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And I have to say my one saving grace

the whole time devastating as all of

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it was and is, was the fact that I.

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I had the confidence that I

could take care of my money.

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I was the one that managed the finances.

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I was the one that had every login.

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I was the one that knew where we stood

to the point where like post divorce,

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my ex was texting me, like, how do I log

into my student loan account, you know?

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And I was just like,

wow, good luck to you.

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And, um, it's.

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It was, uh, an amicable divorce

in the sense that we were able to

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come to a lot of agreements on our

own without, uh, involving a very

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lengthy or heavy court battle.

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So I am proud of us for that.

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Um, but it's still a

complete unearthing of life.

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It's still a complete departure from

everything you thought and expected.

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Um, and in so many ways, and if

someone's really fresh divorce

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listening and so many ways.

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two and a half years out

is like so much better.

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So many silver linings, like you, you

understand so much more about how things

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happen, but when you're in the thick of

it, I know it's devastating financially,

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emotionally, physically, everything.

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Yep.

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And sometimes you just Kind

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Lesa Koski: of feel

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Catt Collins: paralyzed.

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A hundred percent.

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And that's very valid.

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Lesa Koski: Yep.

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Yep.

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And you know, just sitting with

it is okay for a little while,

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but then you've got to, you know,

you gotta do what you need to do.

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So now you said something that I grabbed

onto that when you went through this,

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you had the confidence to take, you knew

that you could take care of yourself.

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Catt Collins: Let's

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Lesa Koski: help the listeners

who don't know that right now.

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How do they get that confidence like

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Catt Collins: kind of quick?

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Yeah.

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I mean, there was definitely

moments of not having confidence

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in other aspects of my life.

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Right.

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So like, uh, you know, like I think of

one month in of me living by myself,

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like the whole basement flooded.

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Right.

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So, I mean, there's definitely

those moments of like, I don't know

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what to do and I'm all by myself.

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So this was just like one

category that I was able to.

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Uh, move forward with, and, but I

still had to make hard decisions.

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And so my biggest advice to your

listeners is it, I agree with taking

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time because you do go in a free state

and you do have to pause for a second.

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And I know every, you know, I,

especially as a woman, if, if moms are

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listening, you like, you're like, I

got to take care of my kids and I got

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to do this and what's going to happen

and you know, everything's different.

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And I think just.

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It's taking some time, um, and getting

support from friends and family to

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really think through how you want

things to look in the next few years.

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We're not trying to like plan life

here, but, um, to take each big category

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of your finances, which will likely

be your home, um, you know, your

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vehicle, your food, like these are

the three main categories that get you

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to and from work or whatever it is.

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And as far as building confidence,

we build confidence by doing.

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And it sounds silly to say, but like,

if you suddenly wanted to take up

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rollerblading as an adult and you

don't feel very coordinated because you

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know, you're a grown up now, you know,

you would be super wobbly putting the

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roller skates on, you would be putting

on like knee pads and elbow pads, and

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you would be so wobbly, you'd probably

fall down, you'd probably get hurt,

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you'd probably feel old, but if you

kept it up, time after time after time,

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suddenly, a few weeks in, you might

do a little spin on your rollerblades.

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Right.

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And that's how this works.

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We're not talking about

taking giant leaps and bounds.

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We're just talking about 1 percent

a day doing something that you need.

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And look, I'm a financial writer.

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It was literally like two weeks ago that

I finally got his name off of my car.

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Like these things take time.

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I don't know why it took me that

long, but it's just, there's

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so many things to figure out.

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So don't expect to have

it done so quickly.

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Lesa Koski: Right.

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Okay.

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So I love that you're talking

about taking action because

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I'm a true believer in that.

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And then I just also want to add that

what can help, what I've found can

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help people to actually take that,

you know, you have to have the belief.

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Yes, and you have to have a thought and

it's hard because so many women are like

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I can't do this I've never done that.

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Of course.

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Okay, so so you look at that

and you go now, wait a minute.

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Is that true ask yourself?

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Is that really true?

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Well, you've probably done

a lot of really hard things.

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You know, you've learned a lot

of things So could you maybe

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believe that you're someone?

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learning How to be great at finances.

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And if you can believe that that's

going to get you so you can take that

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action to start figuring things out.

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And what I always have people

start with in, um, uh, mediation

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session is their budget.

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Catt Collins: Yes.

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Lesa Koski: And a look at their assets.

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So is that something that

you would recommend as well?

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Catt Collins: Oh, absolutely.

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I mean, we are very big on

encouraging people to take

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care of the main necessities.

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Yeah.

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And to, uh, We're just trying to ensure

that you have a path forward, and it's

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obviously especially difficult, let's

say, for women who were stay at home moms

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who maybe have to figure out how to go

to work again, how to do these things

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again, those are like the most challenging

cases, or people who don't have a lot

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of assets, but yes, it's sitting down

and figuring out what do I have now

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as a single individual, how do I want

things to look, what is the next step?

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And again, you learn by doing.

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I'm 100 percent in agreement with you.

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Our brains are always searching

for evidence to confirm the

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bias inside of our heads.

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And so you're going to feel frantic

if it's not something you've done.

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And you're going to think, I'm, you

know, I'm all alone and I don't know

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how to do this, but search for evidence.

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Like you said, of hard

things that you've done.

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I, you can say, Oh, I presented this

meeting at work last week, uh, you know,

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and I did really well, or I got this

promotion or I raised children, you

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know, and I'm always talking to moms

about this, who go through divorce.

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And it's like, you've done like one

of the hardest things people can do,

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trust me, like setting up a budget and

money and all that stuff is nothing

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compared to like raising a human and

the challenges that come with that.

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So I think it's just kind

of starting with the basics.

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Like you said, what assets do I have?

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Yeah.

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How much money do I need every month?

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And what can I do to make sure that I

have that money to meet those needs?

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Exactly.

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And

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Lesa Koski: once people

actually look at what do I need?

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How much do I have?

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Even if they're needing more than their,

they have, there is something that is

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really freeing about actually knowing.

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And I think sometimes

that's a really hard step.

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For people to take and so I always

encourage people to do that first And

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once you do that give yourself a big pat

on the back and go wow I am a woman or

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a man, you know learning how to do this

and you know I love what you were saying

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about finding evidence of things you've

done and you think I think my heart

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goes out to those Stay at home moms.

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Mm-Hmm.

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who feel like, I haven't worked.

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I haven't.

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And what you said is so true.

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Being a stay at home mom is

not a walk in the park, . No.

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It's, it's not at all.

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A lot of people can't do it.

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A lot of people would prefer to go

work and actually make less money

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because it's easier than, it's, it's so

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Catt Collins: difficult.

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Yes.

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Lesa Koski: Yes.

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Mm-Hmm.

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. Yes.

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So.

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You know, realize that

that's a huge thing too.

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And, um, that is evidence of

amazing things that you can do.

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So, you know, anything that we can

do to help make this less scary.

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So what, what we're kind of recommending

is to get yourself, give yourself

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a little pause, have your support.

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Um, I always have my God with

me, you know, I know I got to

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count on him and then take a

look at where you are right now.

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And sometimes it can be hard

with assets if you have no idea.

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And, um, hopefully you're

in a relationship where

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someone's not hiding anything.

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If they are connect with us, we

can help you find someone who

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can figure that out for you.

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Um, but otherwise some

clues are just kind of.

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Keep an eye on the mail and on emails

and, and things that are coming in

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about what assets you have so that you

do have a good understanding and then

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that budget just start working on it.

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And if anyone needs a budget sheet, send

me an email because I'll send you out one

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where it'll just help you remember all the

things, all the categories of everything.

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There's so many.

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Yeah.

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There's so many.

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So many categories.

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And, um, and I think

that is the first step.

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What would be next?

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Catt Collins: I think next is, is

again, sort of, for a lot of people,

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: 00:15:45

this might be their first time

ever knowing what their assets are.

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: 00:15:49

This might be their first time

ever even looking at a budget.

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: 00:15:52

First time ever, even considering their

investment accounts, even knowing what

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the investment account names are and

what's in them and what they mean.

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And so for me, it's, it's a lot of

education, but this is not a time for,

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: 00:16:07

um, I don't think it's, it's not this

first like six months after the divorce

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: 00:16:12

or not really a time for like, uh, Wild

spending or this or that it's sort of

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: 00:16:17

like a hibernation period, I would say.

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: 00:16:20

And so the next steps are to get used to

knowing how to spend within your new life

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: 00:16:27

and your new parameters and not viewing

the budget as spending restriction, but

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: 00:16:32

more spending permission and whatever,

everyone's situation's different.

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: 00:16:36

Some people get alimony, some

people get child support.

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: 00:16:39

Um, some people don't have kids

and they just get an asset split.

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: 00:16:43

It's.

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Taking the time to find trusted

people and advisors if you

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: 00:16:48

need them, like you, right?

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: 00:16:51

Um, people who, you know, act as

fiduciaries, who have your best interests

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: 00:16:55

in mind, and then, like, after that six

month hibernation of, I'm getting used

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: 00:17:00

to my new budget, I'm getting used to

my new thoughts about, I can do this.

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: 00:17:04

Okay, now I need to move forward

with some sort of Plan because I

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: 00:17:08

know for me, um, I, I do my net

worth on the first of every month.

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: 00:17:12

That's something I used to do

together with my spouse previously.

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: 00:17:15

And the first time I ever did it on

my own and it was just my numbers.

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: 00:17:19

I cried.

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: 00:17:20

Like, I just felt like I thought

I was in one place and I was like

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: 00:17:24

drastically in another place.

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: 00:17:25

Right.

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: 00:17:26

And so there's so much emotional

things tied up into it, but sometimes

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: 00:17:31

it just helps to have the hibernation

and then to say, okay, hibernated.

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: 00:17:36

I know.

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: 00:17:37

I know what's missing in the budget.

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: 00:17:38

I know that with.

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: 00:17:39

this money coming in, let's

say I have a 2, 000 difference.

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: 00:17:43

Do I need to go back to work?

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: 00:17:44

Do I need to start a little business?

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: 00:17:46

Like where, how can I do it?

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: 00:17:47

Because you're not going to

feel like starting a business

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: 00:17:49

two months after divorce.

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: 00:17:51

You're just not going to feel like that.

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: 00:17:52

But at that, like, you know,

midpoint, it's time to start.

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: 00:17:57

Making a plan for what comes next.

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: 00:17:58

Lesa Koski: Right.

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: 00:17:59

Well, I don't know about you,

but there are moments when I can

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: 00:18:03

feel a little sorry for myself.

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: 00:18:05

Like, what the heck?

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: 00:18:06

I'm like a grandma.

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: 00:18:08

We've been working years.

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: 00:18:09

I can't, you telling

me I can't afford that?

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: 00:18:12

You know, like, I actually think

about getting my nails done, you

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: 00:18:16

know, or whatever, whatever it is.

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: 00:18:18

And that can be hard.

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: 00:18:20

It really can.

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: 00:18:21

And so I think, um, I don't

know how you deal with that.

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: 00:18:25

How do you deal with that?

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: 00:18:26

But I liked what you said,

Catherine, because sometimes

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: 00:18:29

Just going to a thrift shop?

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: 00:18:31

Yes.

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: 00:18:32

One of my favorite

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: 00:18:32

Catt Collins: things, as you know.

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: 00:18:35

Lesa Koski: I know.

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: 00:18:36

But maybe that could be fun.

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: 00:18:38

Um, you know, finding something

special that maybe isn't brand new

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: 00:18:43

and expensive can make you feel a

little bit better, a little bit rich.

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: 00:18:48

Catt Collins: I agree.

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: 00:18:49

And I think that, This is the

opportunity of divorce for many people.

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: 00:18:55

And this is the silver lining that you

can't really see until you're out of it.

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: 00:18:59

And it's that you thought your life was

going to be one way, but guess what?

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: 00:19:03

You have a blank page.

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: 00:19:04

And I know that's terrifying for

a lot of people, but it's also.

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: 00:19:09

Completely incredible.

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: 00:19:10

Like the world is wide open for you.

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: 00:19:13

We teach something at five year

you called the layers of life.

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: 00:19:16

You have to think of it like a

target sign with five layers and the

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: 00:19:19

innermost layer is, is you, your soul,

your spirit, whatever you believe.

400

: 00:19:23

It's the essence of you.

401

: 00:19:24

It's all your preferences and

your dreams and your goals.

402

: 00:19:27

And then we go out to, you know, family

and career and all these different things.

403

: 00:19:31

But the outer ring is social

media, the title you have at work.

404

: 00:19:37

Um, you know, how many friends

you have, how many designer bags

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: 00:19:41

you have, and all these things.

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: 00:19:42

All these things are great and fun.

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: 00:19:43

The problem is that so many of

us live from the outside in.

408

: 00:19:46

We're, you know, we're collecting

the outer ring of the circle in hopes

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: 00:19:49

that it fills the innermost ring.

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: 00:19:51

And so this is the time to look within

yourself and say, Like what didn't I

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: 00:19:56

like about my life before these clothes,

these bags, whatever, maybe that, maybe

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: 00:20:00

that's your jam and like you live for it.

413

: 00:20:02

And that's awesome.

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: 00:20:03

But maybe you're like,

this didn't make me happy.

415

: 00:20:05

This didn't make my marriage better.

416

: 00:20:06

This didn't improve my quality of life.

417

: 00:20:09

Now's the time to sit

in and say, who am I?

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: 00:20:11

What do I actually want?

419

: 00:20:13

I can do whatever I want at this point.

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: 00:20:16

I can change jobs.

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: 00:20:17

I can be a completely new person.

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: 00:20:19

I can finally be the person I always was

on the inside, but was afraid to show.

423

: 00:20:23

And it starts with honoring those

preferences and trying new things.

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: 00:20:27

And you might find that you don't

need a lot of the expenses that were

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: 00:20:32

on the quote unquote budget sheet,

the spending log, the credit card

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: 00:20:36

statement in your previous life.

427

: 00:20:38

This is your life 2.

428

: 00:20:39

0 now.

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: 00:20:40

And you get to go and explore

and see what that might be.

430

: 00:20:43

Okay.

431

: 00:20:44

I, Kat,

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: 00:20:44

Lesa Koski: I'm so with you on that.

433

: 00:20:46

And in fact, I have found in my

years on earth that those things

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: 00:20:52

are not really what makes me happy.

435

: 00:20:54

Yeah.

436

: 00:20:55

Um, taking care of myself and eating good,

healthy food and getting my exercise.

437

: 00:21:01

Make me way more happy than

going out and buying a new

438

: 00:21:05

handbag or getting my nails done.

439

: 00:21:07

It's really interesting how we get, you

know, and I, so I like that, how you

440

: 00:21:11

talked about the, the outside and now I

get, I get that and I'm looking at the

441

: 00:21:16

time and that's a great place to end.

442

: 00:21:18

The only thing that I wanted to add to

our conversation that I thought about

443

: 00:21:22

was I just want women to know if you are

a stay at home mom and you're listening

444

: 00:21:28

to this, And you haven't worked and you

have children and you're scared to death

445

: 00:21:32

because you've got divorce looming.

446

: 00:21:34

This is what I want you to know is that

there is spousal maintenance available and

447

: 00:21:41

yes, in the future, the judges are going

to want you to have a plan and get things

448

: 00:21:47

moving in the direction so that you can.

449

: 00:21:50

care for yourself and your

children financially, but I don't

450

: 00:21:54

want you to be terrified that

it's going to be right away.

451

: 00:21:57

You know, you can get that maintenance

to help support you going to school

452

: 00:22:00

or getting your career set up.

453

: 00:22:02

So do your very best to trust in that.

454

: 00:22:06

Catt Collins: Yes.

455

: 00:22:06

There are so many resources for you and

you don't have to go through it alone.

456

: 00:22:10

And there is a path forward.

457

: 00:22:12

I get

458

: 00:22:13

Lesa Koski: amen.

459

: 00:22:14

Well, Kat, thank you

so much for joining me.

460

: 00:22:16

It's a treat.

461

: 00:22:17

My pleasure.

462

: 00:22:18

Take good care.

463

: 00:22:19

Bye.